Genealogy Chat

I received a marriage cert photocopy this morning for my 2xg grandparents George and Mary Anne Birch. More below.

The certificate shows marriage September 22nd 1858 in Kirkstall, Yorkshire. The bride is Mary Anne Birch, 24 d of John Birch (cloth dresser) The groom is George Birch, (Cloth dresser) 24, s of George Birch (bricklayer) The marriage is witnessed by Joe Birch and what looks like Annie Ellis. I think I have George as a lodger in 1851 lodging with the Garth family who are connected - I think John b1811 is married to Martha Garth (maiden or first marriage) who may have had a child Jane Garth who shows with the family in 1851 as a daughter. I can't find Mary Anne (or Mary or MaryAnn) in 1841 at all, with either a John Birch or a George Birch. George and Mar Anne appear to have had a daughter Ellen in 1851 (Leeds 23 p560) - 7 years before they married. Can anybody a) find them in either 1851 or 1841 with their correct fathers, b) come up with some explanation - personally I think that the fathers may be the wrong way round! Mark

hiya, this them???? 1861 View Record Elizabeth A Birch abt 1860 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire View Record Ellen Birch abt 1851 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire View Record George Birch abt 1834 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Head Leeds Yorkshire View Record Maryann Birch abt 1833 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Wife Leeds Yorkshire View Record Hannah Waite abt 1796 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Boarder Leeds Yorkshire will have look now for 51 Julie

Hi Julie, Yes, thats them in 1861 - as you see they have a daughter Ellen born 1851, but didn't marry until 1858 Mark

hiya 1841 View Record Hannah Birch abt 1771 Yorkshire, England Leeds Town Yorkshire >>> John Birch abt 1831 Yorkshire, England Leeds Town Yorkshire >>>> Maryann Birch abt 1826 Yorkshire, England Leeds Town Yorkshire View Record Wm Birch abt 1776 Yorkshire, England Leeds Town Yorkshire better then??? Julie scratch that, just seen dates, am still looking

Hi Julie, Yes I found that one - but father is shown as William, John appears to be a brother. And the age doesn't match, although she may have lied at the wedding. Mark

1841, View Record Ann Birch abt 1811 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire View Record E A Birch abt 1835 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire View Record Geo Birch abt 1833 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire >>>John Birch abt 1816 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire >>>> M Birch abt 1837 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire View Record Thos Birch abt 1840 Yorkshire, England Holy Trinity Yorkshire john is tailor, M birch is female Julie

Saw that one too I'm afraid - it's the wrong area though - Hull, and Tailor to bricklayer seems unfortunate! Now you see my problem! Mark

hmmmn, why did you say from tailor to bricklayer???? marys dad was tailor??? georges dad was bricklayer?, do you have a scan of cert?, i assume you have tried looking for witness's???? and parents? Julie

I did find this one, which is why I think the fathers are the wrong way round. 1841 John Birch aged 30 Cloth draper (is what it looks like to me - could be dresser) Martha Birch aged 25 James Birch 2 William Brich 4 months George Birch aged 6 Jane Garth aged 5 And yet the Marriage cert has John as Mary Anne's father and George the brickie as George's father. Mark I can scan the cert - could I email it to you?

Mark, Have pm'd you Julie

hiya I had a look at scan and i think the witness name is Joe BRAY, not birch it looks totlly wrong for that, am just looking now to see if can find anything, annie does look like Ellis for other witness, and then will have a look to see if we can start and unravel this mess Julie :)

hiya, dont know how relevant this is, but have bray family, 1881 cen, and in 1891 they living on next street, View Record Eliza Bray abt 1838 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Wife Leeds Yorkshire View Record Emily Bray abt 1872 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire >>> Joe Bray abt 1835 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Head Leeds Yorkshire View Record Joe Bray abt 1869 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Son Leeds Yorkshire View Record Willy Bray abt 1879 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Son Leeds Yorkshire julie

mark, i think the best way forward with this problem, is to either A) get a copy of marys bapt, to prove parentage, or if she had siblings, cert, that way it would prove/disprove once and for all. Have you looked for possible bapt??? or either Her Or George?? Julie

Hi Julie, Thanks for looking at all this. I can't find a baptism for either - falls just short of that 1837 line. They are a really irritating branch of the family, and my grandfather on that branch was illegitimate, so I have something of a dead end there too. I'll keep digging away. Thanks again Mark

Bumped in case anybody else has any other ideas