Genealogy Chat

Thanks all so much for your info, im so pleased that what i had was right! i never knew about the Peter thing, and i only got the cert out of routine so i guess its amazing the things you can find out from such small pieces thanks again you've well and truely put my mind at rest!

I have several Patricks in Scotland that are Peter on the censuses.

My great grandmother has her birth registered as Josepha, baptised as Josephine, married as Sophia. Gave her name as Sophia on her children's birth certs and buried as Josephine. All the other info (parent's names, mother's maiden name,etc) is identical each cert.

Well mine was in sarf London OC so it must have be a general thing! I wouldnt be surprised if Pat/Peter had been a stoker at some time - it may be worth checking out, sons very often followed fathers into a job. Id also check out if there were any factories or gasworks in the area dad lived, just out of interest.

Got exactly this in my family. My 2 x GGF was reputed in the family to have been a Train driver, drove the Flying Scotsman bla bla, indeed he is listed on 1861 as an Engine Driver. Two years previously at his marriage he was described as a Labourer. I spent years and years, and a lot of money, trying to sort out his Railway career, until SKS on here pointed out that it was IMPOSSIBLE for a man who was a labourer to progress to being a Train Driver in two years - it was utterly unheard of, and that it was far more likely that he was an engine 'driver' in a factory. It must have been a Lancashire thing - he was from Lancs too#! OC

You have the right certificate, because you have the son's birth certificate as well. Engine driver doesn't necessarily mean someone who worked on the railways. Your ancestor could have worked a stationary engine. Although it required skill, I don't think an apprenticeship was necessary, in other words you could take a job as an engine driver, where you had previously been and might subsequently be, a labourer. (Railway engine drivers, on the other hand, were at the peak of their profession: not a job you could just step into) Other errors are two a penny on certificates. There are errors (or white lies) on a large number of my family's certificates in the last eighty years where I can check the details.

Thanks, i was beginning to think i had well and truely ballsed up!!! I have recieved a GRO cert today, so i guess it was transcribed by the registrar? Patrick was Irish so i guess the English name could be a possibility, on all his childrens (that i can find) birth cert he is Patrick, so maybe it was just a writing error Thier first child was born in Ireland, so i guess they married in Ireland which pretty much stops my family line at that point. It doesnt surprise me that there would have been animosity, i believe Bootle where they lived is still a pretty rough area

Well, there was a fair amount of animosity towards the Irish at that time - we had the 'Irish troubles' and a lot of the English felt that these 'immigrants' were keeping the wages down for them. (Times dont change, do they?)

I believe a lot of Patricks who came from Ireland were known as Peter in England. Not sure of the reason. As for the engine driver / labourer discrepancy, he could well have changed jobs. Kate.

Well , James' jobs are fine - a trimmer man was the guy who took the coal to the stoker and a ships fireman is another name for a stoker - so no problem there,he had just progressed. An engine driver doesnt mean a train driver - it means a man who stood operating a machine. My own great grandad was a lighterman who became a ships fireman and then left the merchant navy and became a stationary engine driver at a gasworks. I believe this was someone who operated the machinery which delivered coal on a conveyor belt. So I think the only problem is the name Patrick/Peter. This could be a mistrans or it could be Patrick preferred to have an English name. I dont know the areas you mention - do you feel that is unusual? Have you looked for the parents marriage.

When you say 'mistranscribed' is the cert you've got typed or handwritten, or is it a photocopy of the original copy? If it is a photocopy then I guess the registrar either wrote down the wrong name in a fit of aberration, or was given the wrong info. Or perhaps Patrick had another name and was Patrick Peter or Peter Patrick. Husband has a gt gt grandfather Zuzman, whose father is Solomon on his birth cert and some censuses, and Zalig on Zuzman's marriage cert and some censuses, and Solomon Zalig on his death cert. nell

I got the wedding cert of my gg grandparents today, and i think its been mistranscribed. It has the grooms father as Peter Hanley an Engine Driver, whereas i have Patrick Hanley a lab as his father. On all the census' i have James as the right age and a coal trimmerman (ships), on the marriage cert and his sons birth cert James is a Ships fireman (1901 he is not on the census so i believe he must have been on the ships at that time). I have just tried to find a Peter Hanley as Engine driver with son James born 1871, but cannot find any anywhere. the marriage was in Walton on the Hill Lancaster and the James i have found is always living in Bootle. in 1901 his wife is living in the same street as Patrick Hanley and family