Genealogy Chat

Have just searched the 1841 Census and came across a female, aged 25, whose occupation was shoemaker - against this word was the initial 'J' . Also found this on other entries but these were for males. Would this stand for Journeyman and was it usual for women to gain this status?

I can't think of anything else that J could be short for. I don't know how common it was for women to achieve this - it meant someone who was competent, but didn't have apprentices. There are quite a few women I've found who took over their husband's trade when the husband died. nell

Sounds like cobblers to me! ;-) Not really - my ancestor Mary Ann Fritz was a dealer in old china and is on record as having bid at Christies at a time when it was meant to be the domain of men only. I don't think the rules were as rigid as we would imagine.

I've not seen this before, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible! Have you considered the info might have been written on the wrong line, or maybe the person was actually a man??!!! Lots of my 1841 census records have the ages in the wrong columns! Who is it? Can you give the details? Merry

What exactly is a journeyman? My g.g.granda was a 'lithographic photographer/journeyman'

I think it means that they are qualified in their trade and they now work on a daily rate basis for someone else. Dea x

A journeyman was employed by others rather than working on their own client base.

I'd forgotten that ''daily rate'' thing... It would make sense, because then it would be ''Journée-man'' - ''Journée'' being a day. Christine

Trish sorry for the hijack but..... Chris - thank you for yor post the 'journee' re journeyman now makes sense of all my bricklayers !!!! Cheers ladies :0)))))))))) Jenx

I think that women were in far more different trades than we imagine. Two elderly splinster ancestors of mine ran a plumbing business in the 1780's, and one of my widows took over her husband's carrier business and ran the horse and cart!!

Christine , you are correct. My brother, still alive, is a journeyman plumber. This means he was an aprentice to his trade and holds the papers.

I think a lot depended on what opportunities arose - if she was the daughter of a shoemaker and showed some aptitude for the craft, then her father could apprentice her to himself, at no cost. There were several female blacksmiths in the early 1920s that I came across, and many of my female relations were apprenticed to Tailors and became Tailoresses, one is listed in a Trade Directory of 1921 as a Master Tailor, so presumably 'got her papers'. OC

My husbands grandfather was a journeyman plasterer. He worked for the council and when they didn't have work for him he would be sub'contracted out to another firm. On the 1901 census his father was a plasterer and his six sons were journeyman plasterers. My husbands father explained it to me when I didn't understand as even in the 1930's when he started work it still worked like that.