Genealogy Chat

I have someone born in Ireland, age 45 on the 1871 census for England, occupation 'Pensioner'- His marriage in 1866 also puts him as a 'Pensioner', age listed as 'full age'. By 1881 he is a dock labourer. What do you think/ Why would he call himself a 'Pensioner' Thanks Simone x

hi simone could it be that they had different levels of retirement in those long ago days

Thanks Gillian and Gillian. Never thought of ex serviceman link- could be, could'nt it?:) Perhaps as the family grew later on he had to get a job to supplement pension. Simone x

If you see 'Pensioner' pre 1908 on Census etc it will almost certain to be a Service Pension and more likely to be the Army. The Pensions Act came in about 1908 under Lloyd George and the Liberal Party. Pre 1908 there were no other pensions and most people worked ubtil they dropped. Army Pensioners usually supplemented their pension with work,whatever they could get. Mine was a nightwatchman until he died in his 70's. They were in the army for 2 lots of engagement usually of 11 years each, so they could leave after their first engagement or after the second engagementg Janet

And there was dozey me thinking it was someone with white hair, wrinkles, dentures and screeming grandkids asking for pocket money!!!! : 0 ))

Thank you for that Janet :) Me too Carol- thought he must have had a really hard life!! :) Simone x

In March while I was in the London, I spent a couple of days at Kew. Found my gtgtgrandfathers Naval records. He applied for a pension in 1848, I think it was, in 51 census his wife was listed as pensioner wife. He was onboard an RN ship, so I'm guessing it was some sort of income suplement. 61 census wife was listed as a widow pensioner laundress. The application for pension listed every ship he had been on and length of service to that date. (there was no continual service back then - your time served was recorded as the time on each ship you were signed on to.) From that info I was able to go back and read ships logs to find out more about him. Hope that gives you some ideas cheers Laurie

I have often found older people who are living from a pension described as 'annuitant' which I think simply means that they have an annuity. A pension sounds more like something that you get from work or service, and an annuity maybe something that you pay into (like a savings club or insurance).

Thank you Laurie and Angela :) Perhaps I may find a bit more info somewhere then. That's a great bit of info Christine, thank you :) Simone x

the following is taken from 'Ancestral Trails' by Mark Herber. 'Until the late 19 century(late 1800's) there was no systematic provision for pensions for Naval Personnel and their dependents. A fund was established 1590 to provide pensions to sailors who were wounded, or to the dependents of those killed in action.' Army Pensions were not subject to injury/death but were given on completion of correct number of years service and these records from 1760 to 1913 are in the TNA. Annuitants are people paid an annual annuity rather than pensions as we understand these days. Janet

In 1861, my g-g-grandfather was listed in the census as a 'Superannuated Customs Officer', although he was only 45 years old. I suppose this would be the same as a Navy or Army pensioner. I'd love to go to Kew to look up his records in the Archives, but it's a bit too far to travel from Canada. Tim

Hi all. Don't forget the Police. My gr. g. father retired from the Met aged about 50. Retired through ill health then died a couple of years later from TB. But he was a pensioner for a while. Roger GC

Thanks Janet, Tim and Roger:) Simone

Roger There was a Pensions Act for the Police as early as 1829, but the bad news was that this was only for Police Officers in London, with certain benefits on disablement or for 'those worn out by length of service' and that usually meant that you stayed in the force until you were almost dead, so again not pensions for all. You had to wait until 1890 before a full pension scheme was available for all police officers. A supperannuated Customs Officer I am not sure about. Janet