Genealogy Chat

Sorry Jim, we were both posting at the same time, my last is not as rude as it appears! I think the Fareham thing is just a coincidence, but it is remarkable how the importance of places change over the years. I was looking around Hambledon in the census returns and discovered that the Hundred was named after Finchdean, which is quite small now, in earlier days. And Eastleigh was just a farm before the railway came, and came under North Stoneham. Really must go now, goodnight again, Roger.

I went home that way when I went to the Hampshire RO in Winchester (I live in Sussex), and had quite a job finding Catherington., and a job, too, finding the Church when I got there. Lovely old church, but I couldn't go inside because it was Sunday and the morning service was taking place, and I didn't want to cause any disturbance. Thanks for your help, Georgina and Jim, I'm off to bed now, will check again in the morning. Goodnight.

Actually, thinking about it, I wonder. Both Catherington and Hambledon are where we call 'Behind the Hill' . i.e. north of Portsdown Hill, and are near to Horndean and Waterlooville which is a relatively new Town. I wonder if they came under the control of Fareham at that time? After all, Eastleigh now stretches as far as Locks Heath.

I knew Hambledon but had to look up Catherington, yet I have probably driven through both approximately the same number of times. As to the places given. Please bear in mind that, in those days, the Father, John Frampton, would have most likely been the one to be interviewed by the Enumerator (sounds painful). He may have known that his wife's father was born in Christchurch and just assumed her mother was too. By 1861 he would have known a lot more about her.

Yes Jim, I think it very likely that the enumerator in Christchurch would not have known Catherington or Hambledon, and she might have said Portsmouth and he put that down on his form. I would imagine that nearly everyone would have known Portsmouth in those days, perhaps more so then than now, because of the Royal Navy connection. Do you think maybe Hambledon might have been better known than Catherington because of its cricket associations? We are talking 1871 here, after all.

I can understand the Catherington/Hambledon thing. After all, they are only a couple of miles apart. I am not so sure that they are the same ones in Boldre. I have a relly who gave his place of birth as Stedham, Sussex, when in fact he was born a few miles away at Farnhurst. In a similar vein, when people ask me where I live I say near Portsmouth because they are more likely to have heard of there than Gosport.

Indeed they are Jim, which is why I am so uncertain about it all. I would have dismissed the Catherington lady out of hand if it had not been that she gave her birthplace as Hambledon in the 1871 census. Your analysis is pretty much what I would like to be the case. Augusta/Augustus, bless her heart, is the only one with an unusual name, and the fact that George born 1815 gave that name to his daughter could be a sign they are related.

Thanks Georgina, I have his death cert.,he's my piece 2, the one who was an Innkeeper at Bockhampton. I suppose he might have changed occupations, but it seems abit unlikely without more evidence.

Boldre and Christchurch are quite a distance from Portsmouth, Fareham and Hambledon. In fact they are pretty close to the border of Dorset. I have 2 Framptons in my Tree and one of them was born about 1868 in Hampreston, Dorset.

There is this death entry... Deaths Mar 1849 SHAMBLER George Christchurch 8 122 Georgina.

Thanks Jim, You have made me realise that perhaps Mary King appears in the 1851 census and that might give a clue where she was born. My problem is that Wheelers were rather numerous in Hampshire, and I don't really have evidence that Charlotte is the same as the Catherington one. Have just done a quick check, but only Mary King born around 1773 in Hampshire was born in Fareham. Mary King from Boldre would have been 78 by 1851 so perhaps she had died.

It all seems perfectly straightforward to me. James and Ann Wheeler had Mary in 1773 who married John King. They also had Charlotte in 1785 who married George Shambler at Boldre in 1810. Charlotte and George had George who married Ann and had May, Augustus and Julia. They also had Jane who married Isaac Bright, and Caroline who married John Frampton.

Thanks Georgina, I have found Agusta and Caroline aged 2, presumably her daughter, in the 1841 census. George born 1815 has Augustus as a daughter, which does suggest he might also be a sibling, and could well be the first male child of George married to Charlotte and named after him. I have Jane Bright née Shambler's marriage cert which gives George as her father.

Roger according to the IGI there is only 2 children listed born to George Shambler & Charlotte... 1. CAROLINE SHAMBLER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 22 OCT 1820 Christchurch, Hampshire, England 2. AUGUSTA SHAMBLER - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 18 JAN 1818 Christchurch, Hampshire, England Dont be too worried about Charlotte being refered to as Step Mother in the 1861 census in those days it meant the same as mother in law. Georgina.

Can anyone please suggest a way to put together five pieces which seem to be part of the same jigsaw? PIECE 1 consists of George and Charlotte Shambler in the 1841 census, living at Hinton, Christchurch, Hampshire, ages of both given as 50, with daughter Caroline 20, both born in Hampshire.(I am confident that these are my 3xgt grandparents). Caroline married John Frampton on 6 July 1841 (my 2xgt grandparents). By the 1851 census, Charlotte was a widow living with John and Caroline Frampton and family, aged 66, described as lodger, occupation nurse, born Christchurch. The 1861 census finds Charlotte still living with the Framptons, aged 77, but now described as Step Mo., occupation visitor, place of birth, Portsmouth (still in Hampshire) 1871 finds her living with another daughter Jane, married to Isaac Bright, station agent (later station master) at Harting in Sussex, aged 86, described explicitly as 'Wife's Mother', occupation 'Kept by son-in-law Isaac Bright', born Hampshire, Hambledon. She died later that year. From this it seems Charlotte was born c1785 somewhere in Hampshire. PIECE 2 the only George Shambler I can find dying in Christchurch area between 1841 and 1851 was an Inn Keeper at Bockhampton , who died 30 December 1848. The informant was Ann Whitcher, present at death. PIECE 3 is from Pallott's Marriage index, recording the marriage of George Shambler (of Christchurch) to Charlotte Wheeler at Boldre 1810. Checked at Hampshire RO, date was 17 April 1810, Charlotte was 'of this parish', witnesses were Ian? [badly written] King and Bete Shambler. PIECE 4 (courtesy of IGI) Charlotte Wheeler, daughter of James and Ann Wheeler, born 5 June 1785 {place not given}, christened Catherington [Hampshire] 16 Jan 1789. Checked at Hampshire RO. James and Ann Wheeler had their children christened in batches, one of which included Mary born 7 November 1773. Subsequent to my visit to Hampshire RO I found an online reference to a marriage between John King and Mary Wheeler at Boldre on 18 February 1800 [www.familyresearcher.org/BOLDRE.cfm]. Could this be the same Mary? The Wheelers seem to have left Catherington, so perhaps they moved to somewhere near Boldre? Catherington is the next parish to Hambledon. Both places are about 10 to 12 miles from Portsmouth. PIECE 5 {Just found, in 1851 census for Boldre] George Shambler, head, 36 [so born c. 1815], Ag. Lab., born Christchurch Ann Shambler, wife, 38, born Boldre Mary Shambler, dau., 10, born Boldre Augustus [sic] Shambler, dau, 5, born Boldre Julia Shambler, dau, 11months, born Christchurch Could this George be the son of George and Charlotte, married Boldre 1810 ?

Would anyone please like to look at my jigsaw pieces - see below - and suggest how I can check if and how they fit together?