Genealogy Chat

I have been looking for my great great great grandfather Ambrose (Giovani Ambrogio) de Grussa's marriage certificate for years. He was 'married' to Catherine Elizabeth Hopkins. I have Ambrose's 1851 census that he was unmarried. In 1861 census, Ambrose and Catherine lived with some of their children in Newington, Surrey that they were married. They should know how to register a marriage certificate because they registered all of their children in Births and deaths. All were from Newington. And I believe he must marry to someone if he wants to live in UK. He was born in Switzerland. In 1881 census, he was Natz B Subject (he was a widow). His wife, Catherine deceased on 1872 at Surrey. Her surname was dez Grossa! I found it few months ago by FreeBMD. Could anyone please tell me how to solve the problem? I have been looked up GRO indexes, FreeBMD, 1837online, etc. All are none. Maybe I miss it out, due to various spellings of de Grussa. Thanks, Steven from Australia.

Steven, Give me a few more details and I'll check. What are the children's names on census. Where did they live? Thay way I'll know I've got the right one. I'm in Australia as well. Sometimes I find it better to put messages on about5am our time. That gets the evening ones in the UK. Otherwise nudge it up later.. Most will be tucked up in bed now.

Hello I am in California and it is still evening here. If you give more details I will have a try too. Otherwise do nudge it up for those clever people in the UK. Maggie

Elizabeth, thanks for your offer. Yes I know UK is night time. Good idea, I will put Nudge later. So in 1851 census, it was Ambrose Digrussee born about 1830, Switzerland and lives in Middlesex. In 1861 census, it was Amblogeo Degrussa born about 1815, Cheshire (wrong year and birth of place!) with his wife Cahterine (1831, Newington) at Newington St Mary, Surrey. Their children were: Catherine B: 1855, Newington Charles B: 1856, Newington Charlotte B: 1859, Newington Richard B: 1860, Newington Thanks, Steven.

Hi Maggie, thanks for your offer. See at above. :-)

Hi Stephen Sorry, no luck in any of my searches. You would think, with such an unusual name, that it would be easier to find them, or perhaps BECAUSE it is so unusual it can be mistranscribed more easily. Then again, maybe there wasn't a marriage at all... I have found it not to be such an unusual thing in those days, believe it or not! I would suggest you nudge it up for the UK group, they are always so great with solving mysteries. Rgds Maggie

Hi Steven, I can't find any of the children you list on FreeBMD. How are their names spelt on the birth registrations? Rose

Hi Rose, you would put de Grussa or Degrussa in surname with all types. You will see it from 1860 onwards. Their children from 1860 were Ambrogio, Angela and 2 x Joseph in Newington. Their surname were all correct. Ambrogio (Peter Alfred)'s death in 1861 image was Deguissa. So from 1855 to 1858, I have birth index images of their children which were Catharine (Jan 1855), Charles (Sep 1855, my gg grandfather) and Charlotte (1858). Thanks, Steven.

Hi Maggie, thanks for your help. I agree with you that de Grussa is unusual surname. And there are many different spellings of de Grussa. It is mystery! I will nudge it later tonight. Thanks again, Steven.

Steven some possibilities a) they married, but the marriage is wrongly indexed. With the Italian name its possible, but I would have thought Hopkins would be in the indexes. b) the copy certificate got lost between the local register office and the GRO. You could try contacting relevant local reg offices - assuming they married in or near Newington, but I have a feeling that many of the London reg offices don't issue certs for genealogy purposes. c) you could check marriages in relevant parishes, assuming they married in a C of E church d) as far as I know, you didn't have to marry to stay in England, but the fact that he is on census as a naturalised Brit. subject means you might be able to find details of his naturalisation papers in The National Archives at Kew. Good luck nell

Steven, Do you have Catherine in 1851? Rose

I see that in 1901 [ sorry - you're right - this must be 1891, not 1901] he's living with his daughter, Charlotte and her family in Horsleydown (St Olave/Rotherhithe) and is entered as Ambrose Degrand (transcribed ''Degrave''), age 63 b Berne (''Berae''), Switzerland. Source information: RG12/368 Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub registration district: St Olave Southwark ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Folio: 62 Page: 36 GSU Number: 6095478 - another possible presentation of his surname! Christine

Found all the marriage entries for his children on Ancestry, but not him!!....Will carry on looking x

Hi Nell, Thanks for your ideas. Yes I think so that GRO indexes of Newington would be lost somewhere. I will try to contact St Saviour (Newington) register office. I have checked Ambrose’s naturalisation index in National Archives website so it is no luck to find him. Hi Rose, I have 1851 census of Catherine. But I am not sure if it was her. It is HO107/1065/1 in Lambeth, Newington. She was with Ann Hopkins who was a cap maker. Hi Christine, there is no Ambrose de Grussa in 1901. But you found them that it should be in 1891 which I have it. I still can’t find him in 1901 before his death in 1906. Hi Fuzzy, yes, me too. Expect Ambrogio jnr and 2 of Joseph were deceased. . Thank you all for help. Cheers, Steven.

Posting just for reference Name: Ambrose De Grussa Birth Date: abt 1830 Year of Registration: 1906 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at death: 76 District: Southwark(1901 Onw) County: Greater London, London Volume: 1d Page: 21 1891 - just for reference Charlotte Daffus abt 1857 Walworth, London, England Wife Alice Daffus abt 1884 Walworth, London, England Charlotte Daffus abt 1880 Walworth, London, England Mary Daffus abt 1886 Walworth, London, England Wai Daffus abt 1859 Bermondsey, London, England Head Wallace Daffus abt 1890 Walworth, London, England Son Wm Daffus abt 1878 Walworth, London, England Son Ambrose Degrave abt 1828 Berae; Nbs, Switzerland Father-in-law 1901 just for reference - was hoping he was with daughter in St Saviour Southwark Charlotte Daffin abt 1859 Newington, London, England Wife William Daffin abt 1860 Bermondsey, London, England Head Alice M Daffin abt 1883 St Georges, London, England Daughter Gettie Daffin abt 1893 Southwark, London, England Daughter Horace S Daffin abt 1899 Southwark, London, England Son Leonard V Daffin abt 1898 Southwark, London, England Son Mary E Daffin abt 1885 Southwark, London, England Daughter Percy Daffin abt 1896 Southwark, London, England Son Wallace Daffin abt 1891 Blackfriars, London, England Son William G Daffin abt 1878 Newington, London, England Son Still no luck finding him in 1901 or a possible marriage Good luck with the search. Maureen

Hi Rose, my apologies about 1851 census of Catherine. I don't have her 1851 census as I still could not find her. But it was in 1841 which is HO107/1065/1 in Lambeth, Newington. She was with Ann Hopkins who was a cap maker. Cheers, Steven.

1851 only one of right age Name: Catharine Hopkins Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1830 Relation: Visitor Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England Civil parish: St Bride County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Source information: HO107/1527 Registration district: West London Sub-registration district: West London South ED, institution, or vessel: 7a Folio: 308 Page: 43 Household schedule number: 192 GSU Number: 174757 Visiting Haughton family Maureen

Hi Maureen, thanks for your time. Yes, I agree with you that it should be her. I wish she stayed with her family on that time. Cheers, Steven.

Hi, I found a record from familysearch.org that it was Holy Trinity Church in Newnigton, Surrey for marriages from 1844 to 1854. Is it possible to find thier marriage in this record? Should I order it to check it?