Genealogy Chat

That sounds more like it Nell, better than syphilis! On the cert it just says 'Tabes certified by J Oakman Surgeon' she died at home, not in a hospital.

Sandra Does the death cert only say tabes? I ask because I have a couple of infant deaths in my tree from tabes mesenterica, which was a common disease in infancy: ' a wasting disease of childhood characterised by chronic inflamation of the lymphatic glands of the mesentery' linked with tb, prob. cause drinking infected milk' nell

Hi, just to update you. The death cert of Alice Restall was the right one. Thanks for all your help. She died 5th July 1881, just a few months after the census, aged 1 year & 9 months. She was actually living with another Aunt, my Annie's sister, in Battersea. The cause of death was Tabes. I have googled it and found this.. tabes dor·sa·lis n. A late form of syphilis resulting in a hardening of the dorsal columns of the spinal cord and marked by shooting pains, emaciation, loss of muscular coordination, and disturbances of sensation and digestion. Also called locomotor ataxia. So the poor baby died of Syphilis. She must have been born with it. I wonder why she died of it, yet her sister who was born the following year, lived a full life? The cert for arthur arrived too, but it was the wrong one, as it gave his fathers name as Thomas Searles, a rail plate layer. I have no Thomas Searles in my tree at all, and Arthur was illigitimate. Sandra

Hi Victoria That looks promising, if that is my Arthur, who married in Wandsworth, and Alice might have died in Wandsworth, this gives me a whole new perspective on them. I will now have to find what, if any the Wandsworth connection is.

Thanks Liz She would have died just after the census then. I think I will do that, as you say put her father down as a checking point. If thats the case, I wonder why she would have been right out there, as there are quite a few hospital's/workhouses closer. I say right out there, I know it's not that far today, but my lot never moved far. They just went further east. Johannes ended up in East Ham, and my granddad married my Nan and lived in Poplar, where I was born.

Couldn't see any likely deaths for Arthur Williams but possible marriages - Rosina Burnett 1902 Jul-Aug-Sep Dartford Kent Margaret Ann Feast 1902 Jul-Aug-Sep Dartford Kent Arthur Searles 1902 Jul-Aug-Sep Dartford Kent James Taylor 1902 Jul-Aug-Sep Dartford Kent Or Arthur Searles Year of Registration: 1913 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Spouse's Surname: Cowen District: Wandsworth County: London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 1565 (click to see others on page) His wife was Rose Cowen There are quite a few Williams that could be possibles too - but no Arthur William Searles. I am sorry - this doesn't seem very helpful at all. Victoria

Regarding the Wandsworth death, I have checked the birth indices and there are no births that I can see that would correspond with that death, other than your one. The baby may have been taken to a hospital, workhouse or other place to be cared for prior to her death. As there are no other possibilities, you could order the cert using father's name as checking point. Liz

In the 1891 census, Alice's sister Emma Restell (born Pancras 1882) is living happily with her grandparents George & Deanna Searles in Little Braxted, Essex. I just think why isn't Alice with her?

1881 for ref Annie Jacobs abt 1854 Essex, England Wife Pancras London Florence N. Jacobs abt 1875 St Pancras Daughter Pancras London Frederick Geo. Jacobs abt 1874 St Pancras Son Pancras London Henry Jacobs abt 1845 (For), The Netherlands, Netherlands Head Pancras London >> Alice Restall abt 1880 St Pancras Niece Pancras London >> Arthur W. Searle St Pancras Visitor Pancras London

I have seen that, and wondered a few times, but the district is too far out. Alice was born in Islington, so was Arthur. Both on the census as born in Pancras. My Granddad and his siblings were born in the Pancras district, my g-granddad's 2nd marriage was in Pancras.In 1891 they had a pub in Clerkenwell. Alice's parents marriage was in Islington, they worked in different houses in Islington, and Arthurs Mum worked in Pancras and Islington. So I feel Wandsworth is a bit too far south. I have tried alsorts of spellings, as usually the S is left off of Searles, and in the 1881, Alice's surname is spelt Restall instead of Restell. I am sure that if they did die, then they would be under Pancras or Islington.

Could this be Alice? Name: Alice Restall Birth Date: abt 1880 Year of Registration: 1881 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at death: 1 District: Wandsworth County: London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 357 (click to see others on page This is another, but less likely, one - Name: Alice Restall Birth Date: abt 1878 Year of Registration: 1884 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at death: 6 District: Kings Norton County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire Volume: 6c Page: 288 (click to see others on Hope this helps you solve the problem Victoria

Could this be Alice's death? England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983 Record about Alice Restall Name: Alice Restall Birth Date: abt 1880 Year of Registration: 1881 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at death: 1 District: Wandsworth County: London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 357 I cannot see any other Alice Restell/Restall b1880+/-1 in the London area in 1881.

Thanks Elizabeth and Tracy, sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see clearer.

If you don't have a solution by the time I get home tonight, I'll have a look around :) (I'm supposed to be working now lol)

Sandra, I've copied this so will check back in the morning and if nothing has been found, I'll have a look. It doesn't sound stupid crying over them. I found my great grandfathers brother in a workhouse when he was eighty-six. I cried then too. His brother came to Australia and had a good life.

Hi, I am hoping someone could help me find out what happened to two little ones. My great-grandparents were called Johannes Hendricus Jacobs b1840 in Holland (also called Henry or John), and Annie Searles b1851, Little Braxted, Essex. They had 3 children Frederick 1873, Florence 1874, and my Granddad Albert 1883. In the 1881, the family have two babies with them, both are children of Annies two sisters who were in service (RG11/0209 Folio 20 Page 33) I have been trying to find out what happened to these two babies for almost 4 years now. It’s one of those things that I leave for a while and then keep coming back to. Baby one is Alice Emma Restell b25/10/1879. Her parents were Charlotte Searles and William Restell. They have another child, Ellen in 1882, who in 1891, is living with her Grandparents in Little Braxted, while her parents are still working in London. No sign of Alice, I have looked for her death, but couldn’t find it, I may have missed it. Baby two is Arthur William Searles b08/12/1880, in Islington Workhouse. His mother was my g-grans sister Martha. No father on the certificate. Martha was in service for years. As she was young, I assumed she was ‘taken advantage of’ had the baby, and her sister couldn’t bear for him to be left in the workhouse (I’m thinking Oliver Twist here!) and so Annie took him in. I can’t find any sign of him at all, I have scoured the deaths, maybe I missed him too. Sounds stupid, but at one stage about 2 years ago, I was in tears thinking about the poor little mite. His mother Martha did eventually marry a Charles Todd, in 1892, and had a little girl Dora in 1893. At this time she was back living in Essex. I have contacted a 4th cousin on this site, who has the family, but she doesn’t know what happened to these two babies either. My g-grandmother Annie died on 24th Sept 1885, of Phthisis Astheia (TB & exhaustion) in University College Hospital, my granddad was 22 months old. Johannes/Henry/John remarried on 13/08/1886 to Emma Pike. She already had 3 children, maybe it was her who didn’t want to keep the dead wifes niece & nephew? Any ideas appreciated. Thanks Sandra

I am hoping someone could help me find out what happened to two little ones. Please see below - *Updated, certs arrived today 8th July*