Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find proof to the family story that William Purvis (born 1846 – died 14/02/1941, Northumberland) was the illegitimate son of George Ramsay (12th Earl of Dalhousie born 26/04/1806). William was raised by George Purvis (born c1803 Northumberland) and Elizabeth (maiden name not known, born c1808 Northumberland). Any help / pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.

have you looked for any certs yet ie birth cert, marriage cert this may give some clues altho if he was illegimate it would be a long shot that you will find any written evidence of his parentage.

Yes, could be quite difficult to prove. Looking for births of any William Ramsay's born in 1846 Northumberland and also William Purvis (just to make sure that he definitely wasn't the real son of George - and go through a process of elimination. You can search the BMDs for free at the moment...but to start you off, I can tell you that there are two entries for a William Ramsay born 1846 in Northumberland - one in Berwick, the other in Morpeth. Of course, if he was illegitimate he may have been given his mother's surname on birth cert. But I suppose you have to start somewhere...

1851 census - View Record Elizabeth Purvis abt 1808 Northd, Tweedmouth Wife Horncliffe Northumberland View Record Elizbeth Purvis abt 1841 Northd, Horncliffe Daughter Horncliffe Northumberland View Record George Purvis abt 1803 Northd, Horncliffe Head Horncliffe Northumberland View Record George Purvis abt 1830 Northd, Tweedmouth Son Horncliffe Northumberland View Record Jane Purvis abt 1844 Northd, Horncliffe Daughter Horncliffe Northumberland View Record Margaret Purvis abt 1832 Northd, Horncliffe Daughter Horncliffe Northumberland View Record Susan Purvis abt 1838 Northd, Horncliffe Daughter Horncliffe Northumberland View Record William Purvis abt 1847 Northd, Horncliffe Daughter Horncliffe Northumberland George is a fisherman. William is, of course, a son - not a daughter!! They are living in Horncliffe village. Same family in 1841 - George a fisherman, and all living in 'Township of Horncliff' - Ann Purvis abt 1781 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record Ann Purvis abt 1835 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record Elisabeth Purvis abt 1811 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record Elizabeth Purvis abt 1840 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record George Purvis abt 1806 Norham Durham View Record George Purvis abt 1830 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record Margaret Purvis abt 1832 Durham, England Norham Durham View Record Susan Purvis abt 1838 Durham, England Norham Durham Victoria

Thanks - I already have Purvis census information. I also have details for the Ramsays, however, no proof to link them together. I think getting Williams birth cert is the way to go. That suggestion has jogged a memory that William didn't know until late in his life when he saw his birth cert.

As you say these tales are difficult to prove. Have you looked for a Ramsay will?

No, I haven't looked for a Ramsay will but I wouldn't think it mention William as he would have been next in line to the title 'Earl of Dalhousie'. Instead John Ramsay, George's son born 1 year after William, had this title.

I doubt that William would have inherated the title ahead of George if he was the son of the earl, as illiagitamate children couldn't inherate until quite recently (after the Ligitamisation of illiagitimate children avt in 1927 - if memory serves) But there would be nothing to stop anyone leaveing money or land to who ever they liked so you could find a will saying that something is to be left to the bastard or illigitimate child, 'joe bloggs' sone of jane 'bloggs'.

Is this your George's will, from Scotland's People: Ramsay George Maule 09/03/1881 The Right Hon Earl of Dalhousie, Baron Ramsay of Kerington and Glenmark, d. 20/07/1880 at Dalhousie Castle, County of Edinburgh, testate Will Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills SC70/4/188 VIEW (£5.00) (19 pages) and his inventory: Ramsay George Maule 09/03/1881 The Right Hon., Earl of Dalhousie, Baron Ramsay of Kerington and Glenmark, d. 20/07/1880 at Dalhousie Castle, County of Edinburgh, testate Edinburgh Sheriff Court Inventories SC70/1/205 VIEW (£5.00) (102 pages) It looks like a bargain! I would definitely get it if I were you!!! Kate.

I'm pretty sure that the Ramsays gave the Purvis family a sum of money when they passed William over and said that was the end of the matter. I have found an entry on the BMD index for both a William Ramsay and a William Purvis in the right district and the right year so I will try to get hold of birth certs. If I can confirm William Ramsay was raised William Purvis, I may then get a copy of George Ramsay's will. Thanks to all those giving advice.