Genealogy Chat

My gt grandfather, Alfred Speller was a bit of a bad lad and is proving to be very elusive. Since starting this in October I have got all my family back to 1700s pretty much excpet for Alfred and it's driving me nuts. I would really appreciate some advice. It's a bit of a saga but I've tried to outline it below. Here goes........

Nan’s birth cert in 1914 shows Alfred SPELLER, 'Ships Steward (Merchant Service)'. It is then 'corrected' in April 1929 to remove all reference to him as a result of a written declaration by my gt. grandmother and her mother. The entry for my gt grandmothers is also changed from 'Jane Speller formerly Greaves' to 'Jane Gregory otherwise Speller'. Was Alfred's real name Gregory not Speller? Or could it be something to do with Jane as she later married a Hubert Gregory? The family story is that Alfred marriage to Jane was bigamous, so I suspect Nan’s birth cert amendments are to do with that. I can't find a record of the marriage to Jane though. Would this have been deleted? Although Nan’s birth was registered in Tranmere, Birkenhead where they lived she always said she was born onboard a ship off Gibraltar. Could Alfred have 'married' a heavily pregnant Jane on his ship and persuaded the captain to forget to register his bigamous marriage on return to port? Alfred was said to have been arrested and imprisoned for the bigamy but I can find no trace of it. Any tips on searching for that sort of info gratefully received! He was said to have worked on ships out of Liverpool going around the Welsh coast. The Med, Constantinople and the Bosporus were also mentioned. I have tried searching A2A for seaman’s pouches but the only one for an A Speller wasn't him. He is supposed to have retired to a seaman’s home in Wallasey which was then evacuated to Llanwrwst/Trefriw during WWII where he allegedly died and was buried. Guess what? I can find no trace of his death. I don't know where he was born and as a seaman he clearly moved about. He supposedly had a son, Alfred and a daughter by his legit marriage but I don't know where that family lived, just that his son lived in Ringwood Hants in 1960. Via this clue I have found one possible legit family for him in Portsea. I paid for the son’s birth cert and legit marriage cert but the occupation doesn't seem quite right: 1894 marriage - Marine Contractor. 1894 son's birth cert - Shipping Contractor Master. This sounds like a rather better job than the Ships Steward on my grandmother's birth cert 20 yrs later so surely can't be him? Sorry to go on, I am getting desperate! Any advice you clever folks can offer on how I might find out enough about him to pin down his birth and begin following this line back? H.

Sorry I can't really help with your actual question but if you've got your family all the way back to 1700's in less than a year then you need to be congratulated, it's taken me years! Sam x

Ok looking at what you do know. Doi you know when Jane married Mr Gregory? People often exaggerated their occupation but it is all still related to the sea. Could you list logically what you do know?

Thanks Sam. Although the things that have gone by the wayside would be all too apparent if you could see the state of the house and garden, my desk at work and, worse still, the desk I'm sat at now! Nothing much else has got done since I really got obsessed in Feb when I got broadband. And lets not mention the assignment for Uni that is due next week and not begun and I should be working on now instead of fretting about Alfred!

Helen Let me rearrange this so I can follow it. 1914 Your Nan’s birth cert in Tranmere, Birkenhead shows Alfred SPELLER, 'Ships Steward (Merchant Service)'. April 1929 It is then 'corrected' in to remove all reference to him as a result of a written declaration by my gt. grandmother and her mother. The entry for my gt grandmothers is also changed from 'Jane Speller formerly Greaves' to 'Jane Gregory otherwise Speller'. Was Alfred's real name Gregory not Speller? Or could it be something to do with Jane as she later married a Hubert Gregory? The family story is that Alfred marriage to Jane was bigamous. I can't find a record of the marriage to Jane though. Would this have been deleted? Alfred was said to have been arrested and imprisoned for the bigamy but I can find no trace of it. Any tips on searching for that sort of info gratefully received! He was said to have worked on ships out of Liverpool going around the Welsh coast. The Med, Constantinople and the Bosporus were also mentioned. I have tried searching A2A for seaman’s pouches but the only one for an A Speller wasn't him. He is supposed to have retired to a seaman’s home in Wallasey which was then evacuated to Llanwrwst/Trefriw during WWII where he allegedly died and was buried. Guess what? I can find no trace of his death. I don't know where he was born and as a seaman he clearly moved about. He supposedly had a son, Alfred and a daughter by his legit marriage but I don't know where that family lived, just that his son lived in Ringwood Hants in 1960. Via this clue I have found one possible legit family for him in Portsea. I paid for the son’s birth cert and legit marriage cert but the occupation doesn't seem quite right: 1894 marriage - Marine Contractor. 1894 son's birth cert - Shipping Contractor Master. This sounds like a rather better job than the Ships Steward on my grandmother's birth cert 20 yrs later so surely can't be him? ************************************************************************

I think you should try to find out who Hubert Gregory was and where he came from. If Jane was already a Gregory before she married him, they might be cousins, otherwise its an odd coincidence. Maybe Speller wasn't Alfred's real name. Perhaps he had a string of marriages with different surnames and probably died with a different surname. Not sure how you are going to trace him - you could see if you could find out more about him through his occupation, maybe a shipping contractor would be listed in a directory somewhere.

Sorry Pippa. I realise it is all a bit muddled but that is the whole problem. All I have as definite are his name and occupation from the birth cert as described. All I can add is that the birth was registered by Jane and her address given as 32 Well Lane Tranmere. Based on the stories I have sketched out the following likely timeline for him: He fathered my nan born 1914 and as had two older children by his earlier marriage so was probably born before 1895 and possibly as early as 1860 but more likely given tie of death no earlier than 1870. Estimated years imprisoned are likely to fall within 1920-1930. Retired to seaman’s home in Wallasey, date unknown. Moved to seaman’s home Trefrew or Llanrwst abt. 1939 where he died before the end of the war. The rest is just muddled stories with parts of names and no dates. I don't know when Jane married Hubert Gregory but on my mothers estimate it would be somewhere between 1920 and 1925 but I can't find that marriage. I'm not sure how finding it would help trace Alfred though. Jane married twice again after him and mum only recalls their surnames and not which was no.3 and which no.4! I know she lived in St Paul’s Road Tranmere when she died and that she was either a Redfern or a Wainwright at the time but have not found her death.

Thanks Nell. If only Hubert Gregory was the last of her husbands though! H. Feeling even more confused now as I have always been known as Nell and recently moved house to find myelf living next to another Nell and now I'm sending a message to a Nell.

Have you ben able to trace his other 2 children and get their certs?

The Alfred Speller b.1894 in Portsea could be the son of the Alfred Speller who married in Portsea later that same year. Marine contractor - ship's steward is not so big a leap. However it's interesting on freebmd that almost without exception every other Alfred Speller from 1860 -1900 is registered in London/Essex - and have you discounted the one marrying in Liverpool in 1879? Where have you searched for his death? Have you trawled through the indexes on ancestry beta as you seem quite certain of his whereabouts and the year of his death?

Well not knowing where or when they were born made it a bit tricky. The son was called Aflred and my mum thought the daughter was Dorothy. Using the 1901census to see if a I could find a family unit in a port that had that combination I found siblings Alfred Gardner Speller b.03/11/1894 in Portsea and Doris. I got the cert for the boy and the father is an Alfred, but no suprise there really naming a first son after the father. The father on the cert is the marine contractor I mentioned, as opposed to the more lowly Ships Steward I was looking for. Never the less I thought I'd pursue it to see if I could find the death of Alfred Gardner Speller as I knew that my Alfred jnr was living in Ringwood in 1960 and elderley. I thought a death in that area for Alfred G would confirm him to be the right one. Nice plan but there is no Alfred Gardner Speller deaths for there and several Alfred Spellers. As I don't have any other info to narrow down which might be the right one I'm stumped yet again. Is my desperation showing through yet?

I can see the problem and empathise with your frustration. From 1939-1945inc. there are only 3 deaths for Alfred Speller, none of which are likely to be yours as they aren't in Wales. But maybe the one with G H initials is the Gardner one?? Dec Q1943, age 87, Wandsworth 1d 510 Sep Q 1943, Alfred G H, 62, Portsmouth 2b 582 Dec Q 1940, age 86, Brentwood 4a 1315 ** Jun Q 1939 pages 265 & 266 missing so unable to search this quarter ** Your real clue would be to find the marriage to Jane, bigamous or not it should still be in the parish records?? As couples usually married where the bride originated I would be looking in the indexes for the Merseyside area around the time of your nan's birth. Happy hunting!

Hi Bridie, Yes, you're right, that 1894 Portsea marriage is Alfred G's father and mother. I've got the cert for that too. (Shipping contractor master) I've missed that 1879 marriage in Liverpool though. It seems quite early but certainly worth checking out. Cheers. I now have to show my ignorance, twice! But exactly what is a marine contractor? I thought it would be hiring an commisioning ships to transport warehouse goods which seems a bit more serious than Steward. Am I doing Gt G'pa Alfred down? And now I'm going to sound really dumb but what are the Ancestry Beta files? Do they have some secret backdoor to more files that I don't know about or have I used them and not noticed what they were referred to as?

If he went to prison for bigamy, this would be exciteldy reported in the local press - round about the time of the trip to the Registrar, maybe? Bigamous entries are SUPPOSED to be struck out of Parish Registers, but this depends on the Vicar being informed by the Registrar, who is informed by the Police etc, and you can see how it would be easy to leave the entry in, so yes, look in likely PRs (the originals of course, because these will show a striking out!) OC

Ohh you posted again before I did! Thanks for the extra leads Bridie. Have to say my northern and welsh family of mariners, miners, servants and mill workers with mutiple marriages at every turn are a bit of a nightmare to do. My partners nice middle class home counties set are proving to be a doddle. Tons of mad middle names that make life easy. No skeletons and heaps of paper trails going back way before 1837. Eee, I wish I were posh! Thanks to everyone for the help and advice. If all else fails I have an image of a portrait of Alfred so perhaps I'll make a 'wanted' poster! H.

Thanks Old Crone. Looks like a long train journey to Liverpool is on the cards for my summer vacation!