Genealogy Chat

I wonder if anyone out there can help me, I found a what i think is a strange (marriage) while doing a search at my local Records Office (I think it was Crettingham Parish Records) and I would love to know more about it. it reads: Sundry Blind Guides of (the) parishes of darkness, suffolk, Quasi Ministers and Sundry Wandering Flocks of (the) same parishes, Vistims, Were not married in this (church) by (luck) and only two of them living, this 20 day of december in the year one thousand eight hundres and forty six and by me known to be so Nemo (clerk). This marriage was the shepherds solomenized between us the general mark X of thier flocks In the presence of sundry bishops, priest and deacons, vide the foregoing, entries and signitures Seipsis Testibus. I will reply on here to all messages but may be a few days, but i would really love to hear what people think about this. Mel

Thanks Jen Where it still posted on the general, people have come up with multi marriages, and things like that. Mel

Ooh, this is interesting, I love this sort of stuff! 'parishes of darkness' suggests the writer thinks they are a god-forsaken lot hereabouts, who havent ever had the benefit of the 'true' Church (i.e. the C of E) and have been messing about with non-conformist churches, marriages and acts of worship. When he talks of marriage, has a marriage actually been performed, or is he talking in a wider sense, that is, the marriage of all these heathens to the 'proper' church? I do have to say that sometimes this wordy, huffy stuff turns out to be just the Vicar's opinion about something that would baffle us today, being so trivial. I was researching the records of a particular Non-conformist Chapel when I came across an entry made by the Elders, referring to the disgusting and disgraceful behaviour of the incumbent Preacher, so much so that 'the aforesigned' were getting up a petition to form a breakaway movement (which they did, and moved to another Chapel). I sensed a juicy scandal and spent ages tracking this - turned out the Preacher was suspected of having Unitarian leanings!!LOL! Shock horror! OC

Some sort of joke entry? Nemo is Latin for nobody. Some kind of superstitious local festival where they pretend to marry the sheep to each other?

Seipsis testibus means witnessed by themselves, I think.

Yes, my Latin's a bit rusty, but I think it should be 'se ipsis testibus', meaning 'by the witnesses themselves'.

Do we know the date?? (UPDATE - oops - read it again!) Crettingham - is that in Suffolk? Merry

Yes, Genuki has a Cretingham in Suffolk.

Not something like a Plymouth Bretheren sect is it?

Perhaps they were cretins in Cretingham? Sorry, couldn't resist cheap pun. Maybe they celebrated the wedding by drinking too much and then decided they needed to complete the paperwork. Isn't Nemo a fish - which reminds me, I believe there's a Fish in Olde Crone's tree. Ooo-eeer! This board gets wierder every day. nell

do you think it means 'guides for the blind' (because they haven't seen the light) or 'guides that were blind' (which is strange)? Jean

I think it means Blind as in wrong, misguided, not following the true path. Found this by googling ' Ye who go to the curates, leave these perjured, blind guides, and come. ' on a website about a Scottish covenanter. nell

It's funny Nell, when you think it would make complete sense written in today's English and it's not that long ago, then again, the church still seems to write everything so that people can't understand a word of it.. Jean In fact all official bodies

Jean That's why I tend to think its a huffy aside of the Vicar. Remember, the Parish Register, as kept by the Vicar, was not intended to be seen by the public at large and he could (and did) write all sorts of scurrilous stuff in it (witness my ancestor being described as a great and incontinent whore!) This may have been his comment on some poor simple souls getting married, and he had to vent his contempt somewhere, but wrote it so obscurely that only he (or a like minded Church official) would know what it meant. OC

Thank you everyone who replied to this, i never thought i would get this many people talking about it. i found it about a year ago and it intrigued me enough to get a copy. I put it on here in the hope that someone might have some ideas as to what it was about. So thank you for all your wonderful replies and if anyone out there finds out anything thing else or has any more ideas please let me know. I would love to read them.

I wonder if the people were following the Scottish (legallly binding until the 1930's) where you just declared yourself married in front of at least two witnesses.The Church of course did not like this as they lost the monies they would have recieved if the Marriage had been a regular one ie in front of a Minister. It was also considered a legal amrriage if you took on your husbands name & people considered you to be married & you were also free to be married at the time.Sometimes & even nowadays referred to as a 'bidey-in'

Hi Melanie, why don't you ask one of the archivists, they might have some local knowledge or be able to point you in the right direction to find out more information? Ruth.