Genealogy Chat

Could a very knowledgable person please help me with this. I have from the IGI a marriage, 20th May 1837, the source is from Bishops transcripts of St Chad in Shrewsbury. I always thought that BT's were taken from parish records and if this is the case why is this marriage not there?? Help please!

Why is the marriage not where? In the original record? Maybe they were lost, which is why its useful to have the BTs. nell

Are you saying that you have looked at the original St Chad parish registers and not found this marriage? If so a couple of possiblities come to mind. 1 The IGI has been known to get things wrong - could this have been a marriage in a different parish or a banns entry rather than marriage in ST Chad 2 The vicar or clerk could have written up the returns for the Bishops transcripts from a note book rather than the parish register and included a marriage which had been planned but did not then go ahead. Or it is possible that this marriage didn't get copied into the register or the page from the register on which it was recorded was damaged or lost.

BTs were the annual returns sent in by the vicar, so were, supposedly, duplicates.But there are sometimes discrepancies/omissions/additions between the 2 sets of records. For some parishes, the LDS did not have access to the Parish Registers, but did have access to BTs. As with PR, you should check with the original BTs Jay

Sorry, I have not explained this very well lol The marriage was between Edward Howell and Elizabeth Burgoyne. I have checked 5yrs either side of this date in the parish records for St Chad and every other parish in Shrewsbury! I have entries for the baptisms of their children in the parish of St Giles and Holy Cross, Shrewsbury in the year 1839. Two sons were baptised the same day and the wonderful person even wrote their date of births on the register too. Samuel Burgoyne Howell born 1837 and his brother William Burgoyne Howell born 1839. I cannot find the marriage and cannot find them in 1841. I am sure they married but cannot find the 'proof ' Any ideas?

Janet, Where would I find the original BT's as the are not kept here at the Archives. I asked last time i went and they said they dont have them.

Bishops transcripts are kept in the diocesan archive, which is usually, but not alwas, the county record office. If I were you I would contact the diocesan office and ask where the BTs are kept, it may be they have there own archive.

Hm! The fact that both were baptised on the same day, with a double-barrelled name, suggests to me that the marriage took place shortly before/after the actual marriage. Many Vicars insisted that illegitimate children had to be baptised before they would marry the parents and these two events often took place on the same day. Is this marriage recorded in the BTs? (I mean, have YOU seen it for yourself, or are you going on IGI info/) If it IS in the Bts, but not in the PRs, then its an error of omission. But I have seen for myself entries for the same event in the BTs and the PRs which do not tally - I dont know why! All I could come up with in my particular case was that the Transcriber of the BTs had a personal interest in 'falsifying' the records. The marriage entry was given two years earlier than the one shown in the PR. Hope this helps. Olde Crone

I would have expected them to be in the approriate archives repository, Wilf. Is there anything on Genuki, under the parish? Just a thought, is the IGI entry an extraction or private submission? If an extraction, is the film of the BTs in the library listings on family search - perhaps the film can be ordered through your local LDS family history library? Jay

Many thanks for all your replies. they give me plenty to think on. The marriage is an extracted one and there is a film which can be ordered from my not so local LDS centre. I'll see what that tells me first Many thanks everyone Allie xx

Wilf, I just googled Shropshire Bishops transcripts and found a listing on Staffordshire county council's website. The BTs for Shropshire, including those for St Chad's Shrewsbury, are apparently at Lichfield Record Office. Hope this is of use to you.

You may find that your best bet is to get hold of the film from the mormons. In Norfolk, an extracted reference didn't match with the parish records. When I tracked down the source, I found that the wrong parish name had been ascribed to the entry. It is extremely unlikely that a marriage entry post 1754 appears only in Bishops Transcripts. Marriages had to be signed by both parties, witnesses and the vicar. Once there are printed registers, even baptisms and burials are less likely to be omitted as the entries are numbered. (Though there was always the odd slip up with entries being forgotten or put in a few days late.)

new-style marriage registers were issued to churches in 1837, to coincide with the start of civil registration. This was supposed to be 1st April, but a bill was passed in a hurry in March to delay the start until 1st July. Could it be your vicar started using the new register a bit early?

There is also the possibility (and I only susopect this, don't actually know) that, when a couple married, thus legitimising their children, the Bishops Transcripts were 'altered' to make it appear that the children were legitimate. The original Parish Register usually tells the truth of it. Personally, if these were mine, I would be looking for a marriage in the PR round about the time of the children's baptism, never mind what the BT says. Olde Crone

Judith, Many thanks for finding that for me. I'll try and get over there. Either that or check what the Mormom film says first. Hi Robin, I have gone back and checked all the entries and also for any missing pages. The dates all seem ok. There are marriage entries for that month and the months either side. The new style register started in the July of that year. Thanks for your input Olde Crone. I have checked all of the parishes in Shrewsbury and also 5 yrs either side of that date. They are elusive b***ers. There is a daughter baptised in 1842 in the Holy Cross parish but no sign of the family in 1841. By the 1851, Edward is widowed living with the one son. The other son is living with his grandparents. No sign of the daughter. I wish I could find his 2nd marriage. At least then I would know for sure that he had been married before. So if anyone can find a marriage entry for an Edward Howell(s) to Sarah Boyd(e)(s) between the years of 1851 and 1861, i'll be eternally grateful and will stop banging my head against a darned hard brick wall! Thanks all of you for your expert help and advice Allie x