Genealogy Chat

Olive E Gates - Michael R Allen - Islington trying to find this marriage advice wanted of best place to look.

You can search the BETA images on ancestry. When and where would they have married? (roughly) Tom

Olive E Gates - Michael R Allen - Islington 5c 1695 - 1970 Q3 his was the info I was given, but don't understand or know how to check the year! I am also trying to find her dob. Can you help ! Thanks Caroll

You have all the information there to order the marriage certificate. Year - 1970 Qtr - 3 (or Sept.) District - Islington Volume no. - 5c Page number - 1695 You can order online from the GRO at this address:- http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ It will cost you £7. Make sure when it asks 'is the full GRO reference known' that you check the 'yes' box, otherwise it will cost you more. You will have to see what age she gives on the marriage certificate (it's not always accurate) and then work out from this about when she was born, and then check the birth entries on Ancestry. Kath. x

the only Olive E Gates I could find was born in 1895 and married to a Frank Amos in 1915 in West Ham Essex

She could have been a widow - you would find that on the cert.

George Gates was born is Southwark London on 4/8/1914 and died in Truro Cornwall in May 1992, Georges death was registered by his grandson Mark Allen, I am trying to find who was Mark's Mother (George's daughter) and who was George's wife. Any help or advice please, I have been looking and looking but can't find, this was my original message and someone came back with the Olive Gates bit, but if she was George's daughter George was born in 1914 so don't expect he had any children much before 1934. Carol

I have with my very little knowledge looked on various sites, I have received Georges Death certificate, but didn't know until finding out about my grandmother that George existed, don't know where he spent his childhood only that he was my dad's brother and my dad who died in 1974, could never find him. I have George's Death Certificate and it say's he died and lived in Truro, the person on Death Cert as regestering the Death is down as Grandson, living in Redruth, but I have tried to contact but have had no luck from the telephone numbers I have found or the letter I wrote. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Added By Carol In The Dulwich. on 25/05/2006 12:42:38 | Update Message | Delete Message About Grandmothers Death. I KNEW NOTHING MORE ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HER DEATH, BUT WHAT I DID HAVE WAS A BOOK OF LONGFELLOW POETRY THAT HAD BEEN PASSED ONTO ME WHEN MY FATHER DIED, IT HAD BEEN GIVEN TO HIS MOTHER FROM SCHOOL AS A CHILD, IT HAD HER NAME LOUISA SAVAGE AND THE DATE AND PLACE IT WAS GIVEN. I ALSO KNEW THAT SHE HAD BEEN MARRIED TO MY GRANDFATHER ROBERT GATES, AND THAT THEY HAD LIVED IN WALWORTH IN LONDON. BUT WHERE COULD I BEGIN! --- I PUT A NOTICE ON GENES REUNITED AND ASKED FOR HELP TO TRACE THE DATE OF BIRTH OF A LOUISA SAVAGE, AND ALSO THE DATE OF HER DEATH THAT I WAS TOLD HAD OCCURRED WHEN MY DAD WAS ABOUT TWO YEARS OF AGE. I FOUND THE YEAR OF HER DEATH TO HAVE BEEN 1918. I ALSO KNEW HER NAME AT THE TIME OF HER DEATH. I RECEIVED REPLIES FROM A FEW PEOPLE AND THEY MANAGED TO HELP ME TRACE HER DATE OF BIRTH 1895 AND ALSO THE DATE OF DEATH 1918. THEY IN TURN ADVISED HOW TO APPLY FOR COPIES OF HER DEATH CERTIFICATE. I APPLIED FOR A COPY OF HER DEATH CERTIICATE AND FROM THAT I FOUND THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS MURDER BY PERSON OR PERSONS UNKNOWN, (SHE WAS 23 YEARS OF AGE). I THEN TRIED TO OBTAIN COPIES OF LOUISA’S INQUEST, THE FUNNY THING WAS AS I WAS TOLD BY BERKSHIRE RECORDS OFFICE MOST INQUEST REPORTS BEFORE 1930 HAD BEEN DESTROYED AND THIS ONE WAS THE ONLY ONE REMAINING. I OBTAINED COPIES, AND ALSO NEWSPAPER REPORTS OF THE TIME, RECORDING THAT THERE HAD BEEN TWO INQUESTS, EVIDENCE FROM THE POLICE AND WITNESS REPORTS, AND WITNESS STATEMENTS. I LATER FOUND THAT SHE HAD 2 CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 4)... WILLIAM, MY FATHER BEING THE YOUNGEST, AND GEORGE HIS BROTHER 2 YEARS OLDER. (I had never heard of George until reading the inquest report.) I FOUND THAT ON THE DAY OF HER DISAPPERENCE SHE HAD TRAVELLED BY TRAIN TO SUNNINGDALE IN BERKSHIRE TO MEET AN AMERICAN WHO WAS STATIONED IN THE UK WITH THE CANADIAN EXPERDITIONARY FORCE. (Louisa’s husband my grandfather was away serving in the war.) AND ON THAT DAY SUNDAY 18TH AUGUST 1918 WHEN SHE FAILED TO RETURN TO HER ROOMS, HIS MOTHER AND HER AUNT WENT TO HER ROOMS AND FOUND A LETTER ADDRESSED “ DEAR LOUIE”, ARRANGING A MEETING AT SUNNINGDALE TRAIN STATION FROM A SERVICEMAN IN THE CANADIAN ARMY NAMED VANCE. HER BODY WAS FOUND FIVE WEEKS LATER BY A FARM LABOURER WHO WAS CUTTING FERN; IT WAS IN A WOOD ON THE CHARTERS ESTATE. THE WOOD WAS ENCLOSED ON THE ROAD SIDE BY A WOODEN FENCE ON THE LAND SIDE IT WAS OPEN, THE BODY COULD NOT BE SEEN FROM THE ROAD, VANCE WAS QUESTIONED BY THE POLICE BUT SAID IN HIS STATEMENT “HE HAD ARRIVED LATE AT THE STATION AND THAT LOUISA WAS NOT THERE SO HE LEFT”. LOUISA WAS FOUND IN A WOODED AREA LESS THAN ONE MILE FROM THE STATION—SHE HAD BEEN GAGGED WITH HER HANDKERCHIEF AND STRANGLED WITH HER OWN MACKINTOSH BELT, HER HANDBAG WAS MISSING. (Valuable items of jewellery were still with the body) THE POSTMORTEM EXAMINATION WAS CARRIED OUT IN THE OUTHOUSE AJOINING THE “NAG’S HEAD” PUBLIC HOUSE (by Robert Donaldson MD) Pathologist at the Royal Berkshire Hospital. VANCE TOLD THE POLICE THAT AS SHE HAD FAILED TO MEET HIM ON THE DATE IN QUESTION AND THAT HE DID NOT TRY TO CORRESPOND OR MAKE ANY OTHER CONTACT WITH HER. A PERSON NAMED EMMA GAGNON A FRIEND OF LOUISA ALSO GAVE EVIDENCE, “SAYING THAT LOUISA HAD VISITED HER HOUSE IN SUNNINGDALE ON PREVIOUS OCCASSIONS AND THE ONLY VISITOR SHE HAD WHILE AT THIS FRIEND’S WAS VANCE. EMMA SAID SHE HAD TOLD LOUISA THAT HER HUSBAND OBJECTED TO THESE MEETINGS AND THAT SHE WAS NOT TO MEET HIM THERE AGAIN. THE POLICE NOTES SAY VANCE WAS A SUSPECT AND THAT THEY HAD MET AT SUNNIGDALE ON PREVIOUS OCCASIONS BUT I EXPECT THAT AS IT WAS SOME FIVE WEEKS BETWEEN THE DATE OF DEATH AND THE BODY BEING FOUND THE POLICE EVIDENCE WAS NOT ABLE TO SHOW VANCE AS COMMITING THE MURDER, AND DNA MATCHING WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME. (Whether it was Vance or a passing stranger who had committed the murder is not known) WITNESSES Body Found by Joseph Chandler farm labourer. Dr.Chas.M. Wildridge Supt. Jannaway. Inspector Simmons. Margaret Lilian Silvester. Vance N******. LESS THAN ONE YEAR LATER IN 1919 VANCE TOOK A YOUNG BERKSHIRE BRIDE WITH HIM TO THE USA, HE DIED THERE IN 1962 Vance N******, spouse Florence P***** March 1919, married at Maidenhead Berks. SO THE MURDERER IS UNKNOWN! BUT WITH THE HELP OF OTHERS I HAVE MANAGED TO TRACE THESE DETAILS OF THE GRANDMOTHER- I NEVER HAD. I HAVE TRIED BUT WAS UNSUCCESFUL IN TRACING WHAT HAPPENED TO HER BODY! I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO KNOW IF OR WHERE SHE HAD BEEN BURIED. RE: THE ELDEST CHILD WHO WAS IN A CONVERLESCENT HOME, (AND WAS NEVER FOUND BY MY DAD) NOTHING FURTHER IS KNOWN. HIS FATHER WENT ON TO REMARRY AND HAVE OTHER CHILDREN. MY MOTHER SAID MY DAD HAD TRIED TO TRACE HIS OLDER BROTHER HE HAD PLACED NEWSPAPER ADVERTS TO FIND HIM. BUT TO NO AVAIL. I DID A TRACE AND FOUND A MAN THE CORRECT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Added By Carol In The Dulwich. on 25/05/2006 12:45:16 | Update Message | Delete Message I DID A TRACE AND FOUND A MAN THE CORRECT NAME WHO HAD BEEN BORN IN SOUTHWARK IN 1914 HAD DIED IN TRURO IN 1992. WAS THIS HIM! UPDATE SINCE WRITING THE ABOVE I HAVE FOUND A SITE CALLED FAMILY HISTORY ONLINE AND SAW REGISTERED UNDER DEATHS: LOUISA GATES, HOLY TRINITY, SUNNINGDALE. I CONTACTED THEM AND THEIR REPLY IS BELOW: Dear Carol Many thanks for your messages – what an extraordinary story. I have been to look at our records and we do indeed have something: Louisa Gates aged 23 years of Walworth was buried in the churchyard. It says that there was an inquest. There is a grave space but I am not sure how successful a search would be for a stone there. If you would like to make a visit sometime and come to see the records for yourself and take a look at the churchyard, that would be very possible. Just give me a call. With all good wishes, as ever, David The Vicarage Holy Trinity Sunningdale Ascot SL5 0PD With a slow and noiseless footstep Comes that messenger divine, Takes the vacant chair beside me, Lays her gentle hand in mine. And she sits and gazes at me With those deep and tender eyes, Like the stars, so still and saint-like, Looking downward from the skies. Uttered not, yet comprehended, Is the spirit's voiceless prayer, Soft rebukes, in blessings ended, Breathing from her lips of air. Oh, though oft depressed and lonely, Al l my fears are laid aside, If I but remember only Such as these have lived and died! Henry Wadsworth Longfellow UPDATE Hi carol Albert & Charles Gates are my uncles and also your father’s uncles. Your father is my half-brother and you are my niece. Your grandfather is William Robert gates, brother of Albert and Charlie. I would like to hear from you, my e-mail is……… I received this message to-day from Genes Reunited this is a son Alfred Gates from My Grandfathers second Marriage. 12/10/2005. From Alfred, I believe that when the tragic event of their Mothers death occurred, my father was sent home f