Genealogy Chat

My Grandmother, Mary Shepherd was born about 1886 according to 1891 Census, Forres (aged 5, grandaughter of James and Catherine Shepherd )and 1901 , Edinkillie, (domestic servant, aged 15) both times born Forres, Morayshire Marriage and death certs give parents as John Shepherd and Mary Fraser, but ages suggest born 1883. Can find no son, John Shepherd, of appropriate age to above James and Catherine and only one marriage of John Shepherd and Mary Fraser which not suitable.Have also tried illegitimate birth for Mary Fraser/Mary Shepherd Fraser around all dates without success. So many Mary Frasers to consider in Morayshire, especially with conflicting birth years. Know that Mary was brought up by James Shepherd, son of James/Catherine, but can find no trace of her birth on scotlandspeople or LDS. As I live in Australia, cannot visit local sources .Any ideas where I could search next or why I cannot find her birth after many years of searching?All other family births (legitimate and illegitimate )registered, so why not hers? Desperate to find her and would really appreciate any help at all. Joan

Just out of interest have you located the grandparents in earlier censuses with their children? Suzanne

Hi Suzanne, yes, I have found so much about the whole family, except my Grandmother. Soooooo frustrating Joan

I find that some times the ages are out so add a year or 2 on to your search

Joan I dont know if this helps but these children were all born to James Shepherd & Catherine Smith..... 1. WILLIAM COLLIE SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 18 MAY 1867 Forres, Moray, Scotland 2. JANE ANN SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 25 APR 1869 Forres, Moray, Scotland 3. ANN CUMMING SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 14 SEP 1874 Forres, Moray, Scotland 4. ALEXANDER SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 01 JUL 1865 Forres, Moray, Scotland 5. JAMES SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 06 SEP 1863 Forres, Moray, Scotland 6. MARGARET SHEPHERD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 03 DEC 1871 Forres, Moray, Scotland Maybe their son James was known as John, this is the family in 1881, James is away from home. 1881 census.... Dwelling: 21 Bulletloan Census Place: Forres, Elgin, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203434 GRO Ref Volume 137 EnumDist 8 Page 33 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James SHEPERD M 40 M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gen Lab Catherine SHEPERD M 34 F Burghead, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Wife Alexander SHEPERD U 15 M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Farm Serv William SHEPERD 13 M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Farm Serv Jane A. SHEPERD 11 F Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Margaret SHEPERD 9 F Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Annie C. SHEPERD 7 F Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Robert SHEPERD 5 M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Son Catherine SHEPERD 2 F Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Daur Charles SHEPHERD (SHEPERD) 9 m M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Son ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dwelling: Airdrie Farm House Census Place: Ardclach, Nairn, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203429 GRO Ref Volume 120 EnumDist 2 Page 6 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James HENDRY M 35 M Drainie, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Farmer 350 Ac 104 Ar Emp 1 Man 1 Boy 2 Girls Jane Ann HENDRY M 25 F Inverness, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Wife James HENDRY 8 m M Ardclach, Nairn, Scotland Rel: Son Angus MC MILLAN U 20 M Nairn, Nairn, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Farm Serv James SHEPHERD U 17 M Forres, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Farm Serv Robert MASSON U 15 M Findhorn, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Farm Serv Jessie MOIR U 16 F Edinkillie, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Gen Serv Georgina.

Hi to Val and Georgina...many thanks for your interest and information. In all my searching I had never thought that James may have been known as John.... to differentiate him from his father maybe?I wonder if that was common?You have given me some food for thought for which I'm very grateful. Goodnight for now from Australia! Joan

Hi I'm not really up to speed on this but I guess there must be some sound reason why you've discounted Mary Fraser, illegitimate daughter of Mary Fraser, born Forres 1884? Denis.

sometimes if the name is John they may call them Jack but on the birth should still be John

Good morning Denis, Thanks for offering some help. Yes I did find that birth of a Mary Fraser in Forres in 1884....and got very excited about it!!! But there was a death recorded in Forres of a baby, Mary Fraser, aged 12 weeks, illegitimate, in that same year. Although the address was not the same as for the birth, the mother in both cases was Mary Fraser, farm servant and the informant was the baby's Grandmother, another Mary Fraser(!), which might account for the different address . So I have assumed that they are the same child. There is another Mary Fraser in Forres who was ages with James Shepherd and they were neighbours or near neighbours on various occasions. She died of Pulmonary Consumption in 1887 around the age if 21. I have often wondered if she was the Mother of my Mary. Don't like to sound insensitive, but does anyone know....if she was suffering from PC would she have been able to bear a child??? Thanks again, Joan

Hi Again Val, I agree with you....having slept on the James/John thing I felt that they were not usually interchanged and I was just going through another bout of 'Straw-grasping'...sigh Regards, Joan

Hi again I was over Forres way a couple of hours ago and was speaking to some folk from Moray Council Local Heritage Services. They suggested you email them and explain what you have and what you want. There would be a charge for any work, but they think it is worth at least discussing it with them. They have a lot of local knowledge, contacts etc. The website is: http://www(.)moray(.)gov(.)uk/LocalHeritage/Assets/html_pages/single_pages/archives(.)html Remove the brackets. Hope that helps. Denis.