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Now My Gt Grandfather John CLIFTON born 15th July 1878 verbal birthday from his daughter and year from same person, plus age at death, marriage etc. I want to send for his birth cert. BUT!!! Nan never really knew where he came from. It was always said they were from Gypsy stock and she thought he had come from Pinner area. On the censuses he shows London Sudbury in 1891 and Low Place Sudbury in 1901. Cannot find the family anywhere in 1881. There are three John CLIFTONS registered in 1878 Jul/Aug qtr. Poplar Pancras Hendon. I know they will send back money if they cannot find it but would prefer due to financial cramp to send for one at a time which would you go for first? None of these districts seem to gel with Sudbury. Grateful for any thoughts you all may have.

Hi. Another thought would be; do you have John's marriage cert or details ? That would give his father's name and address. May give us something to go on. Joan

Fathers name was Charles Mother was Jane. They were all in Luton when he married in 1901 and 1907. Just tidying things up really and trying to get certificate so I can prove that his mother was in fact Jane Griffiths. this again was verbal info. I have searched Hi and Lo for Charles and Jane marrying. It is of course quite possible that John's birth was never registered as he himself was 'done' for not registering the births of several of his own children I believe.

Sudbury Middlesex (part of Harrow before Wembley was separated) and Pinner were both in Hendon registration district

Well I think I would go for the Hendon one. BUT the puzzle is where were they in 1881 census ! Joan

Thankyou all I think I will go for Hendon first then, and see what happens. I know what you mean about 1881 Joan. I need to find them in 81 if I can because in 71 they appear in Luton I think. Verbal history from my Nan says that her Grandad 'buried a wife and family' before marrying her grandmother. If it is the right people in 71 in a Lodging house they have a daughter age 1 who is not there in 91 but she could have married. I have tried everything I can think of for 81with no sign of them. Charles (c 1834) does not help as he gives POB Biscester in 71 Pinner in 91 and 01. Jane in 71 I cannot read but New Radnor Wales thereafter. A puzzle which I keep chipping away at, and if I can track down John's birth cert I may get more clues. His siblings show as being born in Oxfordshire but without more clues I cannot pin them down either. Thankyou again. Pmaid

Found this on free bmd; Death of SARAH CLIFTON age 1 Luton june 1872

Sorry for the long delay just sat down to computer. Many thanks for all your help. I will let you know what transpires when and if cert arrives, and if anyone finds them in 81 I would be really grateful. I already have a wrong one which my father sent for back in 1980 for Sarah b1871 in Buckingham so I will wait until this one arrives and once I can get onto 41 hopefully Wednesday I will start trying to find Charles fron there and come forward maybe something will meet in the middle. Again thankyou all.

Update for all those who helped me with this question with grateful thanks. Still no luck with John's cert but I did get his brothers's. Which I had to share as it is quite sad in a way! Samuel (the brother) was born in the workhouse in Luton May '72 the same Qtr as the sister Annie died!!! and I still cannot find them in 81 census..... Still it proves that the mother was who I thought, and I have now traced her back to 1841 in Wales so some good came of it all. Sorry for the delay in update but I had a technical hitch renewing subs so unable to get onto boards until today. Thanks for the thoughts all...

nudge for day shift

Hi I have Charles christening details at Bicester, I'll PM them to you. Heather