Genealogy Chat

If the Harriet who died Q1 1864 is Robert's first wife, then as long as they married before Caroline was born, you may have to accept she is Caroline's mother, if there is no birth cert for Caroline. Maybe you could try local reg office for her birth cert? Or baptism records? Merry

Right, what choices do you have for her birth cert? have you found any that might realistically be her?? if so post them * doubt anyone spend 10 years in hospital, although there is a lkely candidate in the lunatic assylum in one census, but way off age wise

Could even be a death in child birth or shortly after.

Hi Merry Monty, I was past this info on by another family member with Genes re Harriet death and birth 1864. I didn,t know they added Harriet onto her name though. You could be right in memory of her Mother.

OOps, just read your last message.......I thought you wanted to know who Robert's first wife was?? Isn't she the mother of both Caroline and Harriet Agnes? If not, then my apologies............... Merry

Marion, as Jess says, you dont need the mothers name to search for the birth record, you look for Caroline in the time span and area to find the reference on the bmd index and then send off for the certificate to see who her mum was. Plumstead wouldnt be her birth place - they are all in Plumstead because it is near Woolwich barracks. Dont even consider the school theory as that wouldnt be shown as her place of birth anyway - so just cut it all down to what you know.

Well, if it was me, I would get the death cert for Harriet first (1864), to see if she is the wife of Robert. If she was, then I'd get Agnes birth cert, Hopeing she is their child and if she is, then you have the mum's maiden name! Merry

Now I,m really confused. Sorry people. I have always thought Caroline,s sister was Harriet Agnes. Thats how I have always read it when doing my searching. I just want to order Carolines birth Cert but its impossible as I dont know where to order it from due to the different area mentioned.

Hi Helen, Yes on his Marriage Cert it states Robert McClelland Widower. A Robert McClelland did marry a Harriet Ackley about 1851 Grennwich I think. When Robert was a inmate in the Hospital that same Harriet Ackley was a nurse there . Another family member informed me of that. Caroline was born 10 years after that date. Maybe Robert was in that hospital for almost ten years.

I agree with Jess, the mother's name for a birth in 1860s won't be in the index, but only on the cert. You need to find some birth certs at around the right date in one of the southern counties for Caroline McClelland. Have you gone through the GRO birth indexes for those years? nell

Aldershot is in Farnham District: So if Harriett (the daughter) was born there, I wonder if this is her mum's death? Deaths Mar 1864 McCLELLAND Harriett Farnham 2a 70 I did also wonder if this is Harriett's birth? Births Mar 1864 MCCLELLAND Agnes Farnham 2a 84 You have her recorded as Harriet A on the census, but imagine, that might be Harriet Agnes?? She was reg as Agnes, but then her mum died, so they added Harriet to her name in memory of her mum? Merry

who her mothers is makes no difference to finding her birth ref - until the cert is found, no one knows anyway fpr certain ** when was he in hospital??

I take it this is the marriage you are thinking of: Marriages 1852 June Greenwich 1d Page: 792 Ackley, Harriett MCCLELLAND, Robert

Hi Nell, I have read your two messages. I cant find her birth Cert because I dont know who Carolines real birth Mother is? Caroline would have been about 4 years of age when her Father Robert Married Ellen Carr on the 6th Feb 1865 in Woolwich. Can you see what I mean about so many different birth Refs? Also Robert McClelland was born in Ireland and not Scotland. I have seen that one before as well. All the other info I have on Robert such as being an inmate in a Hospital all say Ireland.

1861 I think....or not .... or is that too old?? Jane McKennan abt 1818 Gosport, Hampshire, England Wife Alverstoke Hampshire Robert McKennan abt 1817 Co Areshire, Scotland Head Alverstoke Hampshire Jane Powell abt 1789 Britan, Nk Mother-in-law Alverstoke Hampshire John F Powell abt 1860 Gosport, Hampshire, England Grandson Alverstoke Hampshire Thomas Powell abt 1791 Plymouth, Devon, England Father-in-law Alverstoke Hampshire

There's a Hilsea in Portsmouth, but I would have thought an army bloke wouldn't be mucking about with the navy?? nell

Do you have the 1865 marriage cert for Robert and Ellen? Is he recorded as a widower? Merry

Alternatively, if you could find a marriage between Robert and another woman before his 2nd marriage, and the 2nd marriage was after Harriet's birth, its a fair bet 1st wife was the girls' mother. Where/when she died might also offer clues. nell

Since they wre still in Hampshire when Harriet was born, I am inclined to think Caroline was born in Hampshire too - but Hilsea/Ilsey isn't easy to identify. Have you got her on 1891 and 1901 - does she change her birthplace then? nell

This is them in 1881? Robert says he was born in Scotland, not Ireland?: Robert MC CLELLAND Head M Male 45 Scotland Pensioner & Schoolkeeper Ellen MC CLELLAND Wife M Female 44 Oxford, Oxford, England Elizabeth MC CLELLAND Dau U Female 19 Hilsea, Hampshire, England Harriett MC CLELLAND Dau U Female 17 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Dwelling School Board For London Census Place Bermondsey, Surrey, England RG11 Piece / Folio 0573 / 65 Page 5