Genealogy Chat

I certainly have a 1901 instance in a side-branch of my tree where a probable niece has acquired a family surname from the couple with whom she was living. Christine

CRACKED IT ? Having put my thinking cap on, I had a trawl through for Charles Harris's marriage an, guess what, came up with a possible Harris/Crawley match in 1846. The certificate arrived on Saturday and, true enough, Charlie married Jane Crawley. If you read my previous posts, Elizabeth Crawley married Charles Macey and they had a daughter, Jane, in November 1871 at Charlie Harris's house. Jane's birth certificate, issued 1936, was in family papers. No trace of that Jane Macey in 1881 or 1891, but there is a Jane with Charles Harris, described as daughter. However, there is no record of a suitable Jane Harris born 1871. So, I am led to the conclusion that Jane was brought up by her aunt as her own child. Could I be right?

Thanks for the input, folks. Charles Macey on Jane's birth certificate is a Ground Labourer. He was the informant, so presumably he did exist, unless Charles Harris gave that name. The reference is Hackney 1b 418 Dec qtr 1871.

I've found a Charles and Elizabeth Macey and guess what - they are in Portsea!!!! (but not in the workhouse!) Charles J Macey abt 1846 Hamworthy, Dorset, England Head Portsea Hampshire Elizabeth Macey abt 1845 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Wife Portsea Hampshire Richard Stansmore abt 1870 Landport, Hampshire, England Nurse Child Portsea Hampshire RG10/1141 Folio: 36 Page: 16 Registration district: Portsea Island Sub-reg district: Landport nell

Thinking aloud ...... Charles Harris was at Middle Street in 1871 and still there in 1881. You have a birth certificate passed down in your family for a Jane Macey born at that address in 1871 , with a father called Charles There's no birth reference to be found for your grandmother Hannah Jane Harris who was 20 in 1892 So - was your grandmother actually registered as Jane Macey (she may have applied for that cert in 1936 to prove her age for a pension) If so was this because her father really was Charles Macey but later changed his name to Harris (oh no, he was already Harris on 1871 census) or was she adopted (informally as formal adoption didn't come in until 1920s by Charles Harris and wife or was she child of Charles and the unmarried lodger Elizabeth who pretended to be Mrs Macey when she went to register birth - 1871 says Malley but enumerator could have miswritten Macey as Malley when he wrote up his book. What was the occupation of Charles Macey on that birth certificate. Can we find a Charles and ELizabeth Macey on the 1871 census (if they were living in Middle Street when Jane was born they should be around somewhere on census night. Charles' wife Jane was 44 in 1871 (born London)so a bit old to be the mother of young Annie born 1881. The wife Jane in 1881 is shown as 45 and born Hertfordshire - was she a second wife? Can we find deaths for either of the Jane Harris wives?

Hi Brian, How about just Hannah Harris registered at birth and christened Hannah Jane Harris i have had a lot in my family do that, Just a thought regards June

I don't have the 1891 census but someone looked it up for me previously. (See also Helen's post above) However, in 1881 Charles Harris (as above) is with wife Jane and children including a Jane aged 10 at 4 Middle Street, Hackney in 1881. That Charles is a General Labourer, but they are still there in 1891, when Charles is a widower and Jane is still at home as a washerwoman. On reflection I am inclined to believe that this is the correct Harris family, especially as among the few family papers handed down is a birth certificate for a Jane Macey born at that address (4 Middle Street) in 1871, parents Charles and Elizabeth Macey (formerly Crawley). That certificate was obtained in 1936:I have no idea why ! The chances are that Hannah Jane dropped the Hannah and was known as Jane for everything except formal purposes. For 1871 I have been told that there was an Elizabeth Malley in that household with the Harrises - can anyone double-check that name: it may be Macey mistranscribed, which would explain that bit at least. However, having trawled through 1837online, I still can't find a birth for Hannah Jane Harris in the right time-scale.

Brian I wondered if Hannah had used her middle name Jane, and found this family: RG12/186 Folio: 77 Page: 60 Registration district: Hackney Sub reg district: West Hackney Harris, Charles abt 1827 Limehouse Head Hackney London **** Harris, Jane abt 1872 HackneyDaughter Hackney Harris, Ada abt 1875 Hackney Daughter Hackney London Harris, Eliza abt 1878 HackneyDaughter Hackney London Harris, Annie abt 1881 Hackney Daughter Hackney London nell

Can't find a likely Hannah in 1891. Looked for Charles and I found a Charles and Emma with daughter Harriett: RG12/43 Folio: 114 Page: 31 Registration district: Fulham Sub registration district: St Paul Hammersmith Harris, Charles abt 1844 Kensington, Middlesex, England Head Hammersmith London View Record Harris, Emma abt 1845 Paddington, Middlesex, Wife Hammersmith London Harris, Harriett abt 1874 Kensington, Middlesex, England Daughter Hammersmith London Charles is working as a carman and Harriett as a laundress. No sign of Caroline. nell

1881 for reference: Charles HARRIS Head M Male 38 Paddington, Middlesex, England Brickmaker C... Emma HARRIS Wife M Female 36 Kensington, Middlesex, England Caroline HARRIS Dau Female 11 Kensington, Middlesex, England Scholar Harriet HARRIS Dau Female 4 Kensington, Middlesex, England Scholar Dwelling 1 Threshers Mews Census Place London, Middlesex, RG11 Piece / Folio 0033 / 81 Page Number 31 nell

The other problem is that Hannah in the workhouse is 11, the same age as Charles' daughter Caroline, who is living with him, so its not even as though Hannah and her siblings are from a previous marriage. nell

Brian I suppose it could be your Hannah. But why would she and her siblings be in Portsea when they were born in Kensington and according to her marriage cert her dad's occupation wasn't anything to do with the sea? Hannah and Harris aren't particularly unusual names. I think you might need to look in the workhouse registers of admission and dismissal to see if you can find out more. Have you found her in 1891? nell

Places of birth on the censuses can be a bit of a moveable feast - it probably depended on the wording of the question: Where do you come from? Where are you from? Where were you born? Just different enough to get different answers. I think it's worth working on the basis that you've found the right one (but noting the discrepancy). In teh censuses, my great-g-father was born variously in Maidenhead and Ilford. He was actually born in the Ilford area, but lived most of his early life near Maidenhead. Christine

My grandmother, Hannah Jane Harris, was married in April 1892 and until now I have not been able to find a reference for her before that date. On her marriage certificate her father is given a Charles Harris, Brickmaker. Her age is given as 20. In 1901 her place of birth is given as Hackney (which is where she was living in 1901). In 1881 there is a Charles Harris aged 38, Brickmaker, born Paddington, Middlesex, with wife Emma and children Caroline 11 and Harriet 4, all born Kensington. But no Hannah. However in Union Workhouse, Portsea there are Hannah Harris aged 11, George 9 and Edward 5, all born Kensington. Could these be Hannah and siblings, I wonder, with the wrong place of birth in 1901?

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