Genealogy Chat

My new girlfriend is really interested in my little hobby (makes a change), so much so that she would like to trace her own family tree. Now, I have told her how to do it but there is a slight snag, she is spanish and she is not sure how to go about it over there. She tried breifly last week while visiting her parents but the chap at the register office says she has to get her lawyer to do this for her. Does any one have any experience in spanish genealogy?

Short answer is YES I have experience!!! Full answer is: My father-in-law is from Barcelona. We had to start from scratch, getting his birth cert, then his siblings. These were all 1915-1925ish. We used a Spanish family history researcher who lives in Seville, but he can research anywhere in the country. We don't speak the lingo so couldn't contemplate doing it ourselves. Father-in-law does of course, but he's as helpful as a chocolate fireguard for this!!! To cut a long story short we have now got back to my father-in-laws great-great-grandparents. It took a long time (two or three years!) The civil records are not well indexed like here, so you have to know more or less when something happened and where in order for them to find it. Certs have better data than ours though, with grandparents as well as parents on birth certs, which are written out not in boxes like ours, but more like a long explanation of what happened at the reg office and the input from each person in attendance. The church records tend to be in the hands of the priests and are not easy to get hold of like they are here. Aparently bribery is a usual form of gaining access!! If you would like the name of our researcher to help you then send me a PM. He is very good in only doing what you ask him to do and is certainly not at all pushy, though he does need to be chased from time to time......His costs are about two thirds or less comapred to what you might spend here. he can just give advise for a small fee rather than doing the work!! Happy Hunting MMM

This site has some interesting links and information remove brackets members(.)aol(.)com/balboanet/spain/ Deborah

nudge. I am still a little stuck anyone else have anyother tips and pieces of wisdom

Hubby found some old notes about who to write to and what to say. It's long - Sorry: Revised 3-30-95 ARE YOU READY TO CONDUCT RESEARCH IN SPAIN? Gather all family information you can before beginning. All genealogical pursuits must proceed from the known to the unkown. Then research through the Family History Library of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints in Salt Lake City or through one of it's branch libraries. They have the largest single source of historical/genealogical information in the world. After completing the above it is important to follow these guidelines: 1. Write a cover letter to the parish or to the archdiocese priest explaining that you are researching information about your family history. Ask if you may obtain from the priest a literal copy of any baptism, marriage, and death certificates directly related to your family. For Your Information: Parish Registers for baptisms, marriages, deaths and confirmations are in existence in almost all parishes since 1550, in which the Concilio de Trento ordered their creation. Also, you can always refer to 'Guia de la Iglesia en Espana', Vol.4 (The Guidebook of the Spanish Parishes). This book was published in 1954, by the General Office of Information and Statistics of the Church. This guide covers the categories of Baptism, Marriage and Death. It list all the existing parishes in the country and is available from the General Office of Information and Statistics of the Church, in Madrid, Spain. Most overseas embassies and consulates of Spain have a copy of this work. The Encyclopedia 'Guia Ecclesiastica y Civil de los Pueblos de Espana' gives the names of parishes in various localities in Spain. In addition to the regular parish records, thirty-seven other parochial registers go back before 1400. The eldest parish registry known to exist are found in the parishes of Verdu and Salsona (Province of Lerida), dating back to 1394. Observations to Take into Consideration/Basic Research in the Parish and Civil Register: Parish records were kept by the priest who was one of the town members with the highest degree of education. Some basic measures must be considered: 1) The information in the records is the opinion of the informant (assuming that this person was a good comunicator), therefore it may be incorrect. The information is also subject to the interpretation of the recorder, (assuming that he had good writting skills and was a good listener) changes may have happened in the record or between records. 2) Birth, baptism, marriage, death or burial records may be found in a neighboring town or parish. Due to improvised circumstances, records may have been left by mistake at other parishes. 3) The information may have been recorded in the wrong register, such as a baptism in the death register. It is possible that the title of the Libro-Registro was not clear. 4) An individual may be listed in one record under one surname and under a different surname in another record. These changes were very common between XVI and XVII centuries. This originated because a house or township may have been given the identity of a surname. For instance, a man with the surname Goiti/Goitia married a woman from the house of Oleaga Casa de Oleaga, in a neighboring village. This gave their offspring a first surname Oleaga. This is one of the reason why some birth certificates will show the mother's surname first and father's surname second, ie: Marco Doming Oleaga-Goiti, son of Domingo Goiti and Maria San Juan De Oleaga. 5) Variations in spelling of names may occur, perhaps even within the same record. Many names, both given surnames, were abbreviated. A clue to a name that is difficult to discern may be found by checking a calendar for the closest Saint's Day to the recorded birth or baptism. 6) If information cannot be found due to deterioration, faded or missing records, search appropiate records for wills, property transfers and declarations of dowries. Registers and certifications from the Civil Registry for the State of the above mentioned (except confirmations and births instead of baptisms) were introduced the first of January, 1870. It had already been in operation in a few municipalities for a number of years. The responsability for organizing the new system was given to the local court, the Court of the First Instance, as it was called. All vital events--birth, marriages, and death had to be registered within eight days of the event. The civil registers are still kept in the same courts. In large cities there may be several Juzgados and in underpopulated areas one office will serve a score of municipalities. If through any mishaps from the war these files were destroyed, there is a norm for the reconstruction and reinscription of the records as stated in a law dated Nov. 14, 1958.

Next part: 1) Do not request more than two documents at a time. It is important to open the lines of communications before flooding them with requests. 2) The surnames and full names of both parents must be included to avoid any confusion with brothers and sisters within the same household. 3) The names of townships where your ancestors were born should also be included. Remember that through the years some villages may have been absorbed into large neighboring towns. 4) The dates for a specific document such as, baptism, marriage or death, are unknown. You should provide a span of approximately eleven to sixteen years in which it is believed that the events you are researching took place. You must remember the average life expectancy is three generations per 100 years. If you have all of the above, then you are ready to start your research in Spain. Here are a few courtesies to remember when writing to foreign countries: A)If you want to receive a reply, it is best to write to the parish/archdiocese priest in Spanish. Also, include a self-addressed envelope. B)Include one International Postal Reply Coupon (you may purchase them at any postal office for $.95). Do not send any money prior to receiving a response. In most cases the priest or the archivist will mail the documents before they receive any funds. After receiving a reply, check in your local newspaper under the Local News section, the heading for Foreign Exchange, for the equivalent of the dollar amount you are asked to pay. Then, go to the Postal Office and purchase a Money Order for the required amount. You should have an answer within four months If you have not received a reply after the fourth month, then send a follow-up letter. Indicate in this letter that you have sent a previous letter. Create a correspondence log to keep track of your letters.

and the next bit: I am adding, as a sample three cover letters to help you open the lines of communication. Good luck in your new endeavor. 30 de marzo de 1995 (enero, febrero, abril, mayo, junio, julio, agosto, septiembre, octubre, noviembre, diciembre). Cura Parroco Parroquia de Cadiz Provincia de Cadiz, Espana (Spain) Estimado Padre: El motivo de esta es, que me encuentro en busca de las raices demograficas de mi familia y durante este proceso de recopilacion de datos genealogicos, he descubierto que uno de mis antepasados nacio en esa ciudad. Desearia solicitar de usted, si fuera posible las partidas literales de bautismo y la de matrimonio de estos antepasados que a continuacion le describo: 1)-Maria de los Dolores Jimenez (o Ximenez)-Barbero. Nacida en esa ciudad entre 1770-1786. Hija de Juan y Maria. 2)-Juan Jimenez (o Ximenex). Casado en esta ciudad con Maria Barbero entre 1770-1786. *) Le agradeceria incluyera el presupuesto por los documentos que aparecieran, para asi remitirle un giro postal tan pronto reciba sus noticias. Le estoy enviando sobre y cupon internacional de correos para facilitarle su respuesta. Mucho agradecimiento por su bondad y atencion a esta mi suplica. Jorge A. Flores Address Town Country and Zip Code This second letter has a slight variation in the last paragraph. This change is for two reasons: 1) To save time spent waiting for a reply that might not be satisfactory. There is the possibility, as mentioned previously, that this particular person was registered in a nearby parish, and his brothers and sisters were registered in the one from which you are requesting the information. In this case you will not be waisting time by requesting additional certificates. 2) To make this search attractive for the parish priest, so that he is aware that the search within the range of 16 years is worth it. For you, it might be more expensive. This is a way that you might consider. (*)This means this paragraph can be replaced for the following one: Padre, si en transcurso de esta investigacion aparecieran cualquier relacionada partidas de otros hermanos, favor de informarlo. Le agradeceria incluyera el presupuesto por los documentos que aparecieran, para asi remitirle un giro postal tan pronto reciba sus noticias. Le estoy enviando sobre y cupon internacional de correos para facilitarle su respuesta. Mucho agradecimiento por su bondad y atencion a esta mi suplica. Jorge A. Flores Address Town Country and Zip Code This third letter is address to the Civil Registry. For Your Information: Literal Certifications are issued free of charge, as per a law (Ley 25/1986 de 24-12). Please do not abuse this privileage. Delivery of this document may take longer than the one from the parishes. 30 de Marzo de 1995 El Secretario Judicial Registro Civil Bilbao - Vizcaya, Espana (Spain) Distinguido Senor.: Dirijo a usted la presente con el fin de solicitar, si es posible remitirme la partida literal de bautismo y la de matrimonio de mis antepasados que describo a continuacion: 1) Maria de los Dolores Jimenez (o Ximenex)-Barbero. Nacida en esa ciudad entre 1890-1906. Hija de Juan y Maria 2) Juan Jimenez (o Ximenex). Casado en esta ciudad con Maria Barbero entre 1876-1892. Agradeciendole de antemano, le saluda atentamente, Jorge A. Flores Address Town Country and Zip Code Description Tips for Researching Ancestral History in Spain. To all concerned, I have revised and uploaded a text file called Spain.rsc. This text file provides tips to help you conduct research in Spain. It will be located in the 'Latin American Forum Library'. Hope there is something that helps?? Merry

I imagine that she was told to use the services of a ¨gestor¨rather than a lawyer, because you don´t need a lawyer to order a birth certificate. I have ordered birth certificates myself. However, if you don´t want to wait in line for two hours, a ¨gestor¨will know what information you need and will order it for you ( for a fee of course ) . How far back can she trace her family? Has she got her grandparents details from her parents ¨libro de familia¨? Their birth certificates, which can be obtained from the registry office in the place that they were born ( as long as she has their names, both surnames, and exact date of birth) should give both g.grandparents and hopefully gg.grandparents. Then you can follow the proceedure for asking for information from the church in the place where they were born or from the diocese, where copies were also kept. But remember that a lot of church documents were destroyed during the civil war. A few of the larger registry offices now offer an online ordering service. Pam

Nudge for Heinz57! Merry

Nudge for Sarah! Merry

WOW Merry, I didn't expect to find so much detail... You've been busy! Will hang on to this thread ref and use it later Many thanks again Sarah

Nudge for Angela! Merry

Nudging to keep for myself. x

Nudge for myself. Might need it if my son and Spanish d-i-l ever produce. Thanks for all the info Merry. Christina

nudge for Sarah