Genealogy Chat

Fantastic, I'll check out Fowler Street in 1861 and get the 1851 checked out as soon as I can! Thanks Lou

Hi Nell Not a very big place at all and fairly easy to trawl which I think is what I shall do later. The fact that one of the Hawkridge's married a Cholerton needs looking into as well. That marriage is on my unverified info list but will do some checking. The marriage that Zoe found is highly feasible, a lot of people from Spondon married there and the Marriage Registers are online for that church so I'll have a look for any other William Cholerton's Lou

I wonder - William cholerton carpenter, Sarah's husband an apprentice carpenter? According to Pigot's Directory (info from Genuki Spondon pages) the population was: 1821, 1,543 inhabitants 1831, 1,867. nell

Oh boy oh boy oh boy! You know when a name rings a bell and you don't know why! Please try and keep up BUT the Uncle with the apprentice, Samuel Hawkridge, his brother Henry's son married Florence Martha Cholerton! They're all at it! There must be a connection somewhere. I will be spending the evening buried in LDS! Lou

Lou aaaah - come on now. Don't let an Ag Lab get you down. Perhaps you could try bastardy bonds. if she's that positive about who he is then perhaps its because he had to provide for her all her life.

Zoe I saw that William Cholerton marriage on LDS but on the marriage cert, William is an Ag Lab not a carpenter. And there's not too many Ag Labs in Derby at all! Lou

I think it was pretty standard for just the mother to be named at the baptism if she wasn't married. I don't think I've ever come across one where the father was named even if it was known who he was. With a marriage certificate, the registrar would ask the bride her father's name. If she knew it and wasn't ashamed of her illegitimacy I don't suppose there would be any reason not to record it. Go with it, get looking for a bloke called William Cholerton.

Nell Hadn't actually thought as logically as you have, just saw the father's name on the cert and screeched a bit! Will spend this evening trying to hunt down possibles for elimintation and, as you say, its not exactly a common surname so a quick trawl round 1841 Spondon again might be an idea. Chances are if he IS her father, he lived in the village. Kath/Zoe She's down as a spinster and her age matches perfectly. She would have been 20 four months before she married and give or take a year the ages are pretty consistent up to 1881 which is the latest I have her on. I think it probably is the right girl although the father bit threw me even more because I'd always suspected that Joseph was actually Sarah's father too! He married Esther within 4 months of the death of his 1st wife and I'd always joked that he was keeping both women happy! Lou

There are a few William Cholerton's on the 1871 census in Derbyshire Kath. x

Zoe This doesn't help, but there are tons of William Cholertons on the LDS site going back to the 1500s, all from Derby area. nell

throwing this into the mix from ancestry because of his job: Derbyshire: - Registers of Marriages, 1558-1837b  Derby all Saints' Marriages, 1813--1837.   Derbyshire Parish Registers. Marriages at St. Werburgh's, Derby, 1558 to 1837.    Volume 6. County: Derbyshire Country: England Wm. Cholerton, carpenter, & Rebecca Webster 07 May 1825

I'd say shes your girl. How well do her census ages match up to her birth? If her future husband lived with her uncle chances are he would have known her circumstances and she wouldnt have got away with inventing a father with the same surname as her. Have you looked into the name William Cholerton to see if there is any trace of one in the right area at the right time? Zoe xx

Sounds to me like she knew her father's name, though it's a bit surprising if she did. Was this Sarah on the marriage certificate described as 'spinster'. Just if she was a widow, then it could be the wrong Sarah. It doesn't get any easier does it? Kath. x

Can you find a Bradbury-Cholerton marriage to provide evidence of 2 Sarahs? Can you find William Cholerton living nearby? It's an unusual name. Personally I think this MUST be your Sarah, especially as she has family connections with her future husband in the earlier census. nell

Can anyone help with this little puzzle? Sarah Bradbury b. 20th Jan 1833 Spondon, Derbyshire, was my 4xgrandmother’s illegitimate daughter. Sarah was 6 when Esther married Joseph Smitherd. I have a copy of her baptism record but it only states mother, Esther Bradbury. I have Sarah in 1841 and 1851 under the surname Smitherd, the family are living in the All Saints parish of Derby. Round the corner in 1851 are Sarah’s Uncle and his family, surname Hawkridge. The Hawkridge family have a Lodger with them, her Uncle’s Joiner/Carpenter apprentice, John Baker, aged 20 born Derby. Found a marriage in 1853 between Sarah BRADBURY and John Baker so found Sarah in 61 and 81 and her birthplace says Spondon (61) and Derbyshire (81). The family have been looked up in 71 this afternoon and again her birthplace is Spondon. I was fairly sure initially it was the correct Sarah and she married using her birth surname rather than her step-father’s name but I sent off for the certificate anyway and it came this morning. 15th May 1853, Sarah Bradbury aged 20, John Baker aged 23 occupation Joiner, FATHER William Cholerton! Now I’m totally confused! Did she know who her father was and named him on the marriage certificate? If she was going to invent a father to save embarrassment, I assume she’d have chosen one with the same name as her or used Joseph’s name. Or is this Sarah Bradbury the daughter of a set of parents called Bradbury and the mother re-married and she used her step-father’s name on the marriage certificate in which case it is totally the wrong Sarah! And can I prove any of it! Thanks Lou

2 mins to cut and paste the details!