Genealogy Chat

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I have not come across this before, so am looking for any help. My MIL’s grandmother was a ‘foundling’. Mum said she was left on the doorstep of a local tavern. The owners of the tavern were named Cordingly/ey. I have copies of 2 passports. In 1920 she is with her husband, giving DOB as July 30/1889 Wigan. On her own passport of 1925 her DOB is Wigan July 30/1888. Her name is Rebecca Dunning nee Smith. I am trying to find a copy of her birth. I don’t know if she was formally adopted. As far as I know she stayed with the Cordinglys. I have photos of her 50th wedding anniversary in 1958 and there are Cordinglys in the photos as well, and mum has other newspaper clippings etc of that family. There is no mention of the name Cordingly except on her son’s marriage register. Mother’s name is Rebecca Cordingly Smith; but then you don’t know who gave the registrar the name, Rebecca or her son – she was a witness at the wedding though, and signed ‘Rebecca Dunning’. On her marriage certificate she lists her father as David Smith – labourer. Nice and generic. I am assuming that she would have needed a copy of her birth certificate to get her own passport. Is there somewhere you can check to see what documents were used for the issue of a passport? I have checked on FreeBMD but nothing comes up for Wigan for either Smith or Cordingly/ey. I have not yet asked for checks on the census for 1891 or 1901 to see what comes up for the Cordinglys; and to see how she is listed as relating to them. I am only trying to find a copy of her birth certificate or at least pin down the proper year. I am not interested in trying to find out who her parents were – mum doesn’t say, but I can tell by her voice that she is quite proud of the fact that her grandmother was a foundling and no-one knows who her parents were. So I don’t want to spoil it for her!! Getting off easy with this line. Any suggestions? Thanks. Margaret

Hi Margaret I checked the Lancashire BMD site for you and the only Rebecca Smith I could come up with wasn't Wigan, but the Blackpool area of Lancashire. Rebecca Smith born 1889 Poulton le Fylde The reference number for this certificate is PLF/57/34 and it can be obtained for £7.00 (cheques made payable to Blackpool Borough Council) from: Superintendant Registrar The Register Office South King Street Blackpool Lancashire FY1 4AX Hope this may be of some help to you. Dianne

Diane, thanks for your help. I've emailed mum and I'm just waiting to hear back from her about the Cordinglys first names and the location of the tavern. In the meanwhile I've been trying to find them on familysearch for the 1881 - just for a location etc. but decided to stop after the first 2000 Cordinglys/eys. Since I can't remember their names, I'd just be guessing. Margaret

Margaret She wouldn't have been formally adopted as there was no such thing in the UK until 1927. However, I guess it depends on whether the mother/parents who left her on the doorstep registered the birth beforehand or whether the people who raised her registered the birth using their names. Her birth may not have been registered at all, I'm not sure what paperwork was needed back then to obtain a passport. Do you have any idea of how old she was when she was left with the Cordingleys? If she was a newborn, it is possible they could have registered the birth claiming her as their own. If she was a slightly older baby/toddler, that may have been more tricky and comes back to the 'Did her mother/parents register the birth beforehand'? Bit of a vicious circle really! Lou

Just got an email back from mum. Unfortunately, all she knows is that she was found a doorstep of a tavern (her words: or whatever they called them in those days). She didn't even know where Rebecca was born until I mentioned it in the email. Mum doesn't know how old she was when she was left. Since all the info I have is based on what she told me and copies of these passports, I am at a loss as what to do next. She did say that the Cordinglys had a son named Bernard, but he is in the aforementioned 50th anniversary photos and looks a bit younger than Rebecca, so I am thinking that he was born after they found her. Colin, could you please let me know who that Rebecca Smith was with in 1901. Is Wigan anywhere near Blackpool; is it even in Lancashire? Once I determine where Wigan is, I think I will put a request on the records board for Cordinglys in that area. Bernard may have been born by 1901, so that may help. Thanks for all your help. Margaret

Now this is all speculation ...if she was found on the doorstep, it may be that the Cordingleys took her in, not intending for one minute to keep her, however they felt that they should register the birth. Smith seems a jolly good name for a foundling, it might even have been the Registrars idea. However, time went on, they became too fond of her to let her go and the Authorities (such as they were) would have been only too pleased to leave her with someone who wanted her. She could have taken the name Cordingley informally as most people would assume she was their daughter anyway and call her by that name. When she applied for a Passport, she would have had a Birth Cert if I am right, but I am not sure they asked for such a thing then. As for her father being named as David Smith, well it wouldnt be the first time a father had been invented to fill an embarrassing gap! I think you need to send for a few birth certs. Good luck. Marjorie

Hi again I have just found this info purely by fluke for you. 1881 census LDS, submitted just the name Cordingley. Going through the list my eye was drawn to some people born in Sale Cheshire. Being the nosey me that I am I had a look because my dad comes from Sale and guess what - they are publicans!! Margaret Cordingley Head Widow 47 Publican born Sale Ches Charles Cordingley Son unm 28 No occupation born Sale Alice Cordingley Dau Unm 25 born Sale Sarah Cordingley Dau Unm 22 born Chorlton-Cum-Hardy Elizabeth Brown Sister Unm 41 Assistant born Sale Thomas Cordingley 43 Unm General Domestic Servant Sale Address: Jackson's Bridge, Chorlton-Cum-Hardy Lancashire I realise that this could all be pure coincidence but: 1. Could they have moved to another pub, as landlords do, in the Wigan area 2. Could one of these sons have become a publican in his own right in Wigan and could he be the adopted father of your Rebecca 3. Wigan and Blackpool areas are not that far from Sale, maybe about 30 miles. My dad and his mate used to go from Sale to Blackpool and back on their motorbikes for a night out. 4. When my dad used to drink at this pub in the 1950's it was called Jackson's Boat, and I think it still is. 5. Sale and Chorlton-Cum-Hardy are walking distance apart and Jackson's Boat is about halfway between. 6. The border of Cheshire and Lanceshire runs through Sale. My dad used to have last orders in Sale Cheshire at 10pm, then him and his mate would run down the road to another pub which was in the same street but in the County of Lancashire for last orders at 10.30pm!!! I know all this is a long shot, but it might be worth following through to 1891 and 1901. I would have done this for you but I am having problems with Ancestry as it won't let me in and I'm awaiting feedback from them. I just felt it was too much of a coincidence to have publicans of the same name in the same county. Dianne

Marjorie, I am hoping that a certificate has been issued. Even if she was given the name Rebecca Smith with father David, maybe the informant could have been a Cordingly. Dianne, Thanks for that find. I got blurry eyed after the first 2000 Cordinglys. Hope you didn't have to go through too many to find that. I will wait until the morning then I will post on the records board for that address for 1891 and 1901; maybe for Bernard as well in 1901. If I do it now it will probably slip right off the board before I even get up (canadian time). If I can make a match of birth place to the birth listing you gave earlier I'd be one happy camper. Margaret

I checked 1901 and only Cordingley associated with pubs in Lancs./Cheshire was Margaret Cordingley 67 Chorlton Cum Hardy born Sale Cheshire. Household - Jackson's Bridge Inn Margaret Cordingley 67 Sale, Cheshire, England Head Chorlton cum Hardy Lancashire Sarah E Cordingley 42 Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Lancashire, England Daughter Chorlton cum Hardy Lancashire Edith Shelhorn 30 Altrincham, Cheshire, England Servant Chorlton cum Hardy Lancashire Other Cordingleys associated with pubs in England in 1901 - James Cordingley 41 Yorks Windhill Yorkshire Idle Publican Joseph Cordingley 46 Yorks Warley Yorks W R Cleckheaton Publican Mary Cordingley 39 Yorks Shelf Halifax C B Halifax Publican Wigan must have been the area for dumping kids at pubs. My grandmother was informally adopted after a Mr Thomas, miner, was caught trying to sell her as a baby outside a pub in Ormskirk (8 miles from Wigan), c1909. My grandmother never had birth cert either, or did but we don't know her birth name. The story did appear in the newspapers. Wigan was a mining town in the south Lancashire coalfield and is 16miles from Chorlton cum Hardy.

Hi Margaret Sorry but I think I might have led you up the garden path a bit last night. I was hoping that Charles Cordingley might have become Rebecca's adopted father, but he died age 41 in 1894. His mother Margaret was still the Publican at Jackson's Bridge in 1891 and 1901. As you can see I've got my Ancestry back. They had messed up somehow and lost my username and password somewhere in their system. They have given me new ones now so I am happy again today!! Dianne

Samantha and Dianne, Thank you both for your help. Looks like the same Margaret in 1901 as in 1881. Dainne, could you check for any Bernards for me in 1891 & 1901? Just in case he is there. In the meanwhile, mum has sent me copies of the newspaper clippings I mentioned earlier. It seems that Bernard's son Paul was married here in Canada - so off to the phone books I went - you wouldn't believe how many Cordinglys/eys are in there. The newpaper article gave the name as Cordingley, so I will try them first. I'll probably have to wait til later for people to get home from work - this is not message machine stuff. If I can't find family in Canada, and Rebecca or Bernard can't be found in the census, I might just give up for a while. Mum may remember something else now that I've brought her name up again. Margaret

Hi Margaret Unfortunately only one Bernard Cordingley in the whole of the UK on 1891 and 1901. 1891 63 Linnamus Street Kingston Upon Hull Yorkshire Thomas Cordingley Head 42 Linen Draper born Hull Yorkshire Catherine Wife 41 born Brighton Sussex Mary C Dau 12 Scholar born Hull Bernard A Son 8 Scholar born Hull Thomas L Son 5 Scholar born Hull Monica Dau 3 born Hull Dorothy Dau 5 months born Hull Jane E Flynn 16 General Servant Domestic born Hull Lucy M Forfitt 14 Nursemaid born Hull -------------------------------------------------------------------- 1901 36 Westbourne Avenue Sculcoates Kingston Upon Hull Yorkshire Thomas Leaper Cordingley Head 52 Draper Shopkeeper born Hull Catherine Wife 51 born Brighton Mary Cecilia Dau 22 born Hull Gertrude Dau 20 born Hull Bernard A Son 18 Drapers Assistant born Hull Lena Wressle 19 General Servant Domestic born Mirfield Yorkshire -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, it still doesn't look as though Rebecca is with them, but where the heck did Gertrude spring from???? Dianne PS I'm off to look and see if there are any Gertrude Rebeccas/Rebecca Gertrudes I might not get back to you tonight as I am shattered and I need my bed so if not I will catch up with you tomorrow. Dianne

Thanks Dianne. Maybe Gertrude was on a sleepover in 1891. I didn't get to phone any Cordingleys tonight, I'll try tomorrow. Any luck if you just try Rebecca Smith? Margaret