Genealogy Chat

hi, ok, here goes!.....my dad was born 1953 birth name 'benjamin thomas' - mother was named as 'lily thomas'. i found out she married in 1951 to a man named 'benjamin smith' she was 50yrs old when married making her d.o.b 1901...... so i sent for the marriage cert and found out she was the divorced wife of 'james thomas' she married him in 1923 and her age then was 21yrs old...that made her d.o.b 1902!!! did she lie about her age on the 1st marriage????? and also why did she name my dad 'benjamin thomas' benjamin - 2nd hubby christian name.... thomas - 1st hubby surname.... this is slowly driving me madddddddd...... best wishes alison

Did Lily have any more children before Benjamin? I have known of divorced people wanting all their children to have the same surname even if there was a later marriage. Was she really 52 when your father was born? 1901/1902 need not be a problem.Depending on when the events took place, the ages could be correct OR Lily could have said she was 21 to avoid having to have her parents' permission to marry.

hi yes i was shock too to find out she was 52 when she had my dad... benjamin smith who she married in 1951 whom i presume is my dad's dad was 49 when my dad was born... he was given up at birth to a foster home - i had been thinking all these years that she gave him up because she was too young! not the case though.... i found out out she had a daughter in 1927 named mary thomas. i havent found any other children as yet.... best wishes alison

If she was married when your Dad was born it would be presumed that her husband was the father but his birth certificate may say otherwise. Have you seen it? If your father was fostered straight away, there must have been a reason, eg It was not Benjamin's son, or she was unwell? Did she meet up with her first husband again perhaps and it was HE who fathered young Benjamin?

hi, im getting even more confused!!!! the father wasnt named on the birth cert..... i have been in touch with someone who holds records to my dads fostering, hopefully i should recieve something on wed/thurs...im hoping that it might give a reson why he was put up for fostering.... maybe that you are correct dea, that would explain why the surname thomas was given as marys surname was thomas.....but lilys would have been smith' oh my god this gets worse, why cant i have a simple family! best wishes alison

hi yes of course, as soon as i hear from them i will let u know, im actually hoping that mary was in fact his mother now...... best wishes alison

Alison 1.Both Thomas and Smith are relatively popular surnames. Are you sure that the Lily Thomas, mother of Benjamin Thomas, is the same person who a) was once married to James Thomas and b) later married Benjamin Smith? 2. If Lily's surname on the birth cert of Benjamin is Thomas, then she couldn't be married to Mr Smith when he was born. 3. I must admit I am a bit suspicious about her age at Benjamin's birth. I think you need to unravel this more - can you find her marriage cert to James Thomas? This will give her father's name which you can use to find her birth cert which will confirm her true age. nell

hi nell, you have thrown me now, here is what i have and have done...... started with dads birth cert... 1) benjamin thomas born 1953 6 clements rd,thanet..-mother 'lily thomas' residence at time 6 clements rd thanet.... spoke to my own mum she recalled a 'benjamin smith' may have been father.(she hired a investigator yrs ago) did a search for any marriage between lily and benjamin smith... 2) found a marriage 1951 between lily thomas formerley 'chick' age 50yrs (divorced wife of 'james r thomas' ) lilys father was ('william chick 'coal hewer') and benjamin smith age 47yrs divorced hubby of 'edith griffin' both lily & benjamins residence at time of marriage was 6 clements rd , thanet..... then searched for a marriage between james thomas and lily chick... 3) found marriage in 1923 of james r thomas aged 22yrs (father joseph thomas) and lily chick aged 21 yrs (father william chick 'coal hewer') did a search for any children born of lily & james and found 1 so far...'mary thomas born 1927' im pretty sure that all fits.... best wishes alison

I have one person in my tree of 1000+ who had a baby at 47. The rest all seemed to have their last children at 40-43. I know it's not impossible to give birth at 53 now with modern fertility techniques but it would have been really, really unusual 50+ years ago. I know you will never be able to prove it but it would seem likely that his mother was really his grandmother.

Karen, Marriage certificates always give maiden name as 'formerly'. If the woman has been married before it says 'late' then the married name, then 'formerly' then the maiden name. I rang the GRO to confirm this was the right way round when I found this on my great grandmother's birth certificate, describing her mother. Kath. x

hi all, so is my research correct?.....lily's maiden name is chick i am well confused now....i am coming round to the theory that mary was his mother as it does seem a little strange a 53yr old woman having a baby in those days.... and wasnt it looked upon 'not right' for an unmarried woman to have a baby (mary thomas) best wishes ali

I agree with Dea.....It's most probable that the daughter is the mother.

hi yes i agree too....im gonna dig more into mary thomas.....im hoping that the foster records will hopefully shed some light on to this, should be here wed/thurs..... best wishes alison

hi to all who answered me!!!! i have just calmed down.......a min ago i was jumping all over the house!!!!!!..... i have done some digging and i have found another 2 children born of lily.....one in 1923 'glynn' and one in 1933 'LILY'!!!!!!! so it turns out she had a daughter in 1933 and named her lily!!!!....so the lily i thought was my dads mum at age 52 is infact his grandma!!!!.....and my dads real mum was only 20 when she had my dad!!! phew!.....its great when you find something out!!! best wishes & many thx!! alison<<<<still jumping!!!! aint i sad!

Just catching up here Alison, after the Easter break. Still jumping?? I'm glad you seem to have found your answer, - and a few more rellies too!

Alison I am jumping up and down with you! So is the Lily on your dad's cert your grandmother pretending to be his mum, or your grandmother's daughter whom you have just discovered? nell

hi, there are 2 lily's , ones the mother and ones the daughter, the daughter is actually my dads mum....she was only 20 when she had my dad which accounts for why my dad had the surname 'thomas' same as hers, bit confusing still lol, but it all fits and makes sense now.... bit relieved to find out ,my dads mum wasnt 53 when she had him! not that it would have mattered really, just that my dads mum could possibly still be alive, she would be 72 now....if she is alive then im just sorry my dad isnt alive to meet his real mum..... anyway, i will carry on searching! best wishes & thx for all the comments, alison