Genealogy Chat

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My 2 x Grandfather had three sons, William, Joseph and James. I am descended from William and I am in contact with a living descendant of Joseph. My late father was of the opinion that James never married. But I am a careful and seasoned researcher, so I checked. I found him on every census up to 1891, unmarried. I then found him in 1895, Rates book, unmarried, living with his married brother William. He was there again in 1900, still unmarried, still living with brother William. He died on 31 Mar 1900. I decided, in the interests of cash flow, not to bother with his death cert just yet, after all, I knew everything there was to know about this man, except how he died and I guessed it was probably consumption. I ruled two neat lines under him and got on with the rest of them. Last night, just as I was finally going off this site, mouse poised on the cross, up flashed 'i new message' Hi, it said, I see you have James born 1860 died 1900, I think I have him on my tree. No, said I, very sorry, my James never married, still its a common name isnt it. Erm, just so I can rule him right out, he didnt have brothers Joseph and William, then? Me (Bolt upright by now) Yes. To cut a long story short, James, the little tinker, lived with his married brother William until late 1898 when he married. He then lived in the house NEXT DOOR and I think the Rates Book just hadnt caught up with him! He died in 1900, after fathering a child and it is the descendant of that child who had contacted me! I rang him at 12.30 last night and we were still on the phone at 3.00 am. We have solved several puzzles for each other and we are both euphoric! The odd thing is, he knew of my existence but 'lost' me about 1960s, when I married. But I, indeed none, of my family even knew of the existence of this branch! So, the moral is: Certify them, certify them, certify them!!! Oh, and he only joined GR on Monday! Marjorie with more ancestors than she ever knew!

Marjorie, What a fabulous story and a lesson to us all. Thanks. Jean x.

Marjorie, What a fascinating story, and what a turn up!! :O) Interested to know more about Rates Books tho - where do you get copies of them from??? Anne

That's brilliant Marjorie! I think it belongs on the 13 commandments thread, lol. Heather

Great news Marjorie and it proves the two dicta of genealogy 1. Always assume the obvious 2. Never assume the obvious I have recently discoved that a great-great uncle who my mother thought died unmarried actually DID marry at the advanced age of 69. Good job he did, as the money he inherited when his wife died was bequeathed to his various nephews & nieces, including my grandmother, who was about to be flung onto the streets for non-payment of rent! nell

Thats brilliant Marjorie and just because of that story I have just sent off for two more certs! Yes, where do you get rates books from????

Marjorie That's incredible! Its like the reminder to CHECK THOSE MARRIAGE WITNESSES! One of the witnesses at my ggrandfather's wedding was the brother I had down as having died aged 2. Some digging and certifying later and it appears they had one child called Henry who did indeed die then had another with the same name but never registered his birth. I located him through his baptism record and subsequent marriage cert! Lou

Hi The rates books were in the Manchester Library but were just photocopies. The originals are in the Lancs Records Office. I forgot to say, they also appeared in 1898 in the local Post Office Directory, again in Manchester library. I keep emailing my new 3rd cousin with questions I forgot to ask him on the phone. He will soon be regretting he ever found me! One thing I thought hugely amusing was that at James marriage, his father, also James, was described as a 'Retired Engineer'. Considering that up till then he had been a labourer (and mostly an unemployed labourer at that) I thought this was a bit of a liberty. However, new cousin tells me that Edith married deeply beneath her and this was probably the new groom's attempt to pull himself up in the eyes of her family! Cheers and may you all have this kind of luck! Marjorie