Genealogy Chat

Hi all... I finally received the long awaited marriage certificate..It has only raised more questions though...Is it common for the parties to have 2 dead fathers? And living at the same address? I have a William Knott marrying a Frances Cash on the 20th Sept 1854. Grooms father was Thomas Knott but states rank or profession as dea.. and the last letter looks like a d. Same applies for Frances' father Joseph Cash. They both lived at Great George St...and were married at St James Church in the Parish of Bermondsey in Surrey.... Can anyone give me any ideas on where to go from here? I was actually trying to get some more information on Thomas, and have come against a dead end.... Thanks Leeanne

Leanne Several of my family's certs have both fathers dead - and on some marriage certs they aren't listed as (deceased) even though they were! It was also very common for bride & groom to appear to be living together at the same address. This was simply to avoid having the banns called at two different parishes. If you are having problems reading the dead men's occupations let me know - you can e-mail me the image and I'll see if I can interpret. nell

It is usual for the father's names on a marriage cert to be followed by "dead" or "deceased" if that is the case. At least it gives you a latest date for when you're searching for the death (i.e. you know that both fathers were dead by this time). The only other info that might have been recorded would have been the father's occupations, but this isn't always included when they are deceased. And, at least you did actually get the names - I recently received a marriage cert where the father's name just said "dead" - no name whatsoever.... very useful NOT!

Hi all....thanks for replying... Helen they have no occupations listed....and alas I don't have a scanner or I would gladly email you the image....and thank you for offering...that is lovely.. Sheleen, hi, the couple were listed as of full age.....so grr can't even get birthdates or even years of birth, frustrating... Hi Richard...I wanted the info on the fathers to expand my tree info...and grr...just names....so without an occupation etc....William ended up being a master printer....and there was a printer named Thomas Knott...but that is a little bit of a jump......On the cert. it states Williams occupation as mariner...I don't suppose any of you could help with the location of Great George St??? Thanks all for your replies Cheers Leeanne

Thanks Sheleen Another mystery then...I have asked for lookups on Census for London areas around 1851 and 1861...and it has not turned up William or Frances in that locale......this really is frustrating isn't it.....but oh so addictive Just read your added message Sheleen....I take it Godalming would be like a suburb around Bermondsey where they were married? Would these areas come under the London Census? Sorry for all the questions...I live in Australia...and have no idea of locales over there Cheers Leeanne

Leeanne Discount Godalming - it is miles outside London, near Guildford in Surrey Peter - in NZ but I come from London

Thanks Sheleen...have book marked the page... Hi Peter....still a little confused...on their marriage cert they were married in the county of Surrey at ST james Church in the parish of Bermondsey...which is in Surrey isn't it? So the next question would be is Guilford near Bermondsey in Surrey......how confusing lol Cheers Leeanne

Bermondsey used to be classed as surrey - but is actually in London. Godalmin/Guildford are in Surrey but about 20 miles from Bermondsey Sorry if I confused you - it is rather like Sydney and Newcastle are both in NSW but Balmain is in Sydney as well as being in NSW - and that looks clear as mud to me, I'm not even sure I understand myself!! Peter

Thanks guys.....still confused though...have just now asked for a look up for Goldaming in Surrey for Census....as London Census gave me zilch....and yes....very confusing....lol Leeanne

Leeane, I doubt it's Godalming seeing as Frances was born in Southwark and William in Westminster. Crista

Hi Crista Thanks for your reply....Any ideas where I should be asking for Census look ups? I have asked for the London area and Middlesex look ups.....that gave me nothing...perhaps if I look up Southwark? Where would the census be for Southwark? And thanks again Leeanne

Have looked in family search - do you have William's age on the cert? There is a William Knot bap 20/3/1836 in St Botolph without Aldgate, Parents Thomas and Ann) in which case he seems to have siblings Caroline (1842) and Elizabeth 1838. There is a marriage between Thomas Knott and Ann Granger in Spitalfields on 4 6 1826 Looks like you need a visit to your local Mormon Church to view parish records!! Peter (bored with looking for elusive Krafft family)

Peter Hi They are all elusive aren't they.... On the cert it just states of full age. though by my calculations Frances would've been 20.... Judging from the census details I have William was born approx 1829 in Westminster....again I have no idea of geography there.... Hope you have a breakthrough soon with your family Cheers Leeanne

Hi, It is also possible that they were illegitimate. To avoid the embarrassment of admitting they were illegitimate people often made up a father's name and also said he was dead. - Or sometimes put the name of a brother or grandfather in the space on the form. Gwynne

Hi,. I was born in Bermondsey - if you are interested, you may want the list of books available from Southwark archives, let me know and I will mail them. Yes, it was known as surrey in Victorian times even up to the 30's but then that was because London was the term used just for the City, the central area. As the city grew outwards (with all our ancestors moving there from all over the country) it became Greater London. Greater London spreads out about 12 miles round London now. Yes there is a Surrey Quays, my son lived there whilst working in London. It is also the place which used to be known as Surrey Docks, where my father worked as a docker all his life until the docks closed in the 70's. It is now a trendy wine bar, guppies area with boat clubs on the water where there were once barges. Hope that gives you some idea. But as I said, there are some great books available that would give you an understanding of just how bad this area was when our ancestors lived there. Even Charles Dickens wrote how awful the conditions were. Let me know if you want the book list.

Hi Heather Thanks for your reply...Yes I would love a copy of the book list...and with any luck it will be available through our libraries here... Thanks leeanne

I would think it is very common. I have had certificates giving the father's name and occupation when he had been dead for years! Also, the bride and groom giving the same address. If there is no house number, just the street, I guess they could have been in different houses. I know that my parents-in-law's family lived in several adjoining houses in the same street.