Genealogy Chat

There could be missing children between 1862 and 1868 because I haven't looked there yet as they must have died young - they do not appear in the 1871 census. Sooner or later I will have to track down stillbirths as there is a rare genetic defect in my family and, although this lot may be unrelated both the lines that I have seem to originate in essex - in which case I may get a present day connection which will enable me to make a pre 1800 link Peter

There were usually hospital facilities attached to workhouses. In fact, quite a lot of workhouses were converted into hospitals. If the wife was unable to bring in an income because of pregnancy and the money was needed, it would be logical for the wife to enter the workhouse. As for a widower marrying his wifes sister it would be seen as a perfectly acceptable solution. The father would have the support to look after the children, the children would have a mother figure that they knew and the wife would have somewhere to live. We tend to try and impose our own values of love etc. on our ancestors but we forget that in a poor household practical solutions had to be found.

Have you got the family on an 1851 census, Peter? Are there any missing children? The birth gaps are so narrow, it suggests a relatively young woman. You've either got lots of unrecorded still births, miscarriages or the menopause to explain the last gap. I'd get Agnes's certificate. Ann may be her mother, but I wouldn't feel comfortable in the supposition without a bit of paper to support it. B

I wonder if they were actually married, he could have just called her wife. I believe that sometimes unmarried Mothers were put in the workhouse. Incidentally my gt Gt Grandfather married his wife's sister when the wife died. Ann Glos

I would be depressed too if I was having children into my 40's. Maybe she was too depressed to say her age was 42 so she told them 32. Or, it's just an error.

Rosemary - I think the Catherine is the right one, but she needs to be 42! Constance was born 1870, 4 months at the time of the Census and died 1871 - was the workhouse also a hospital as this could explain Catherine being there - PNDepression? Peter

Can you get a father/mother name check for the children.Cost 3 pounds but if correct you only get charged the other 4 I was told.

Hi Peter, On the 1871 there is a Catherine Krafft, age 32, married, inmate at the Camberwell Workhouse. She was born in Malden, Essex. That ties in with the Catherine on the 1881.

Thanks Geoff - thought of that, but there is no birth, and his wife in 1881 is definitely Catherine, she appears later as Catherine, then as Kate (grandmother) and dies as Kate. I am really wondering what to do about the missing births and also which certificates to go for - if I buy the lot my wife will kill me - I don't even know if this family are related!! Peter

Perhaps the Ann that died in 1854 was yet another child.

KRAFFT is a rare name – there is really only one showing in the London Area in the 1871 Census. Frederick Krafft married Ann Brown 2 June 1839. Children started appearing shortly after: Isabella Ann Q2 1840 Marylebone Charles Frederick Q4 1842 Marylebone Caroline Emilene Q1 1844 Marylebone Adelaide Q4 1845 Marylebone Agnes Elizabeth Q2 1853 Camberwell Ann DIED Q2 1854 Greenwich BUT KRAFFT CHILDREN KEPT APPEARING: Horatio Q1 1857 Greenwich Emily Gertrude Q4 1859 Greenwich Florence Opt Q4 1862 Camberwell Ernest Henry abt 1868 Camberwell Constance 1870 Camberwell Most of the latter bunch can be pinned down to the father (Charles) in the 1871 Census. In this census there is no wife at home, the only possible candidate is Catherine aged 32 born Maldon Essex who is in the workhouse. In 1881 he has a wife Catherine aged 52 at home. Coincidentally Ann Brown (his first wife was also born Malden and has a sisterCatherine the right age! It gets worse – in 1870 William Kraft (note spelling and I can find no birth in 1837 – presumed from census to be about 1849/50) married Alice Downs – in 1881 the spelling is Kraaft and they have reverted to Krafft in 1891 Alfred James Krafft (not in 1837, presume born 1853) marriedJane ???? and is living in Battersea in 1901. I have scoured 1837 right through I cannot find a marriage between Charles and Catherine. Where do I go from here – or have I missed the obvious? Regards Peter Krafft Auckland New Zealand

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