Genealogy Chat

I have a marriage cert for my 3 x great grandparents in 1856. John Barker b.1822 & Sarah Whieldon b.1833. The first witness on the cert is William Barker. I know that John's father is William Barker (and cert also confirms this). William Barker was born in 1799. John also has a brother called William. He was born in 1820. Both John and Sarah were unable to write (x his/her mark) but William Barker actually signed his name. Do you think the witness would be more likely to be his brother than his father? I think so, but would like your opinions. They were a family of farmers by the way. The 2nd witness is an Elizabeth James (x her mark also) I can't find any connection to either side with this surname and it's really puzzling me. Any tips? Thanks for reading Helen

Can you find your named BARKER family in 1851 census to see what the younger William's occupation was? Were both Williams still alive? Have you checked parish registers to see if they'd died. Some people could sign their name, and that's all. Can you find either of the William's marriages, for example and see if their signature matches the original (in the parish registers)of the one you have? Elizabeth could just be a good friend of the bride, in the way that a bridesmaid might be today.

Hi Gwyneth, Oh gosh I'm getting so muddled up. I've realised I'm getting William Barker muddled up in my head with Sarah's father, who was also William. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the 1851 census. William Barker was born in 1791 and died in 1868, so he was still alive when his son John married. I have William Barker Junior on the 1871 census with wife and children and his occupation is stated as carpenter. Thanks for all the hints etc. I will be going to hunt through parish records soon to help me with my search. I'm pretty sure it would have been brother William who signed but I will get the marriage cert for him to see if the signatures match like you suggested. Helen

You will need to make sure that you get a copy of the original then, not a transcribed one.. Good luck

Hi Helen The female witness could be: married relation best friend someone who married on the same day sexton's wife etc etc It is also a sad fact that people learnt how to write, forgot how to write, and changed their signature over the years. You may suspect you know who the witness is, and your guess may very well be correct, but unless both father and son could write and had very different signatures you will never be entirely sure. Sorry! B

Thanks Brenda. What you say is very true, unfortunate for me but I still absolutely love this new hobby!!!

Hi Helen, You could try and look for Elizabeth on the census's either side of the marriage to see if there are any clues there. One of the witnesses at the marriage of my great grandparents was also unknown to me, I did a search for her on the 1891 census (luckly just a few months before the marriage) and found she was the same age as my great grandmother and lived next door, probably was her best friend at the time. Good Luck with your search Michele

Question for Gwyneth, but any one can answer! You said make sure you get a copy of the original, not a transciption- Some thing has occurred to me in the past few days, after reading threads on this board about people ordering certificates from register offices. I have been getting all my certs from GRO & I assumed that these were taken from transcribed records, but it occcured to me that perhaps if I was to order them from the actual register office, would I get a copy of the original register entry with samples of my ancestor's handwriting? Might be a dumb idea, & feel free to correct me if it is, but if it is the case, where can I get addresses of register offices? A puzzled LIZ

Liz, If you put Register Office in you rsearch engine you will get a list. Probably get certs quicker. Not sure whether they will be originals or transcripts though. Joan

From my own experience: Reg. Office Certs. are copied out by someone currently working there. GRO Certs. are photocopies of the transcription sent to them at the time the event took place. The only place you'll find the original handwriting is in the Parish Register. Take a look at your own marriage cert. It's only a copy.