Genealogy Chat

My great grandfather is Herbert Walter Barker born in Staffs in 1886. I obtained his marriage certificate (to Margaret Byatt Evans, formerly Ferns in 1910) which stated his father was John Barker. Herbert is on the 1891 and 1901. On the 1891 census living with his grandparents, John and Sarah. John and Sarah had sons Thomas, John, William and daughter Hannah. Once I discovered Herbert's father was John, I assumed this was natuarally John Junior. John junior never married, from what I can find so far anyway, but I wanted then to find out who Herbert's mother is. I therefore sent for the birth certificate for Herbert. It arrived this morning.............to my horror the father's name was blank and the mother's name stated Hannah Barker, no maiden names etc so Herbert was obviously illigetimate (sp?) I'm obviously convinced that Herbert's mother was the same Hannah that was born to John and Sarah Barker (please tell me if I'm wrong) In 1881, Hannah was 18 and a servant, interestingly there was another male servant of the same age (my great great grandfather maybe??!!!) Why though would Herbert have his father's name on his marriage certificate? Maybe he thought his grandfather was his father? Maybe he didn't know Hannah was his mother? Oh I'm just so confused and any ideas would be welcomed from you experts! Also, one worrying thing. On his birth certificate, Herbert's middle name, Walter isn't mentioned. This doesn't mean I have the wrong birth certificate does it???????? Thanks for reading and I hope I've made sense! Helen

The only thing i can think of at this time of night is the fact that when he married it was still frowned upon to be born out of wedlock ( can't spell the illigit word LOL ) So p'haps he made up a father, so nobody would look down on him. Just a guess tho, i'm sure others will come up with other ideas!!!

How many John Barkers were born in the same registration district at the same time? Perhaps he just used John Barker as a father's name to avoid embarrassment. Maybe John acted as a surrogate dad. Perhaps Walter was also an invention for the marriage cert - I have a relative who was registered and baptised as Annie, but put Elizabeth Annie on her wedding cert. nell

Helen read the thread titled How many of your ancestors were illegitimate? in this thread many peopel state that thier rellies stated their grandparents as their parent, or at least named them to avoid embrassment. P'haps he named his grandfather to save face Shelli

I think it was not uncommon for the grandparents of a child to turn up at the font and have the child baptised as their own. This happened in my research and for a long time I thought I had rubbish information as the "mother" of the child was 67 when the child was born. It took me AGES to work out that there were several adult unmarried daughters in the house! Also, at one time it was a crime punishable by law to have an illegitimate child and any woman who could not or would not name the father was often sent to prison - for years in some cases. So I should imagine that often the grandparents said the child was theirs, to save their daughter from jail.

Thanks for the replies. I think you're all correct. Herbert was obviously born out of wedlock and I'm sure he never knew who his real father was. It's very sad and also fustrating but very very common. I just hope I've got the correct birth certificate. There's no other Herbert's close in the district though so I must be right. I just wish it had his middle name on. The 1891 has initial 'W' for his middle name, as well as his marriage cert saying it. I must be right but I'm learning always expect the unexpected when it comes to researching ones ancestors!

I have the opposite middle name problem. On his birth cert there IS a middle name but he never uses it again! The only way I am sure it is right is that its the surname of his mother and a VERY rare name - Ashler. Anne

Helen My friends Mum has just started researching her family tree and discovered that the person she thought was her sister was infact her mother. And that her parents were her grandparents. All a bit late now as they are all dead Jeanette x

Can you use the address on his birth certificate for further research? Were any members of this family living there in any census before or after his birth? Are there any directory entries for his grandfather? Any other members of the family born at the same time? Where were they born? Hope this gives you some ideas. Kathy

I read somewhere - can't remember where that quite often someone who was illegitimate would use their own name followed by dec'd for their father on a marriage certificate. This happened in my tree. Liz

His birth cert merely gives his name as Herbert but he could have been christened as Herbert Walter. Have you tried checking the parish register for his christening - which may add to what's on the certificate?

Thanks for all the continued replies with tips and ideas etc Jacqueline - what sad news for your friend. David - excuse my ignorance - were all babies christened? I'm quite certain of the church where he would have been if he was. How do I check Parish registers? Do I check with the local library? Or do I check with the church itself and if so, do I go there, or write etc?

Hi Helen Your local records office should have copies of local parish records - usually on fiche. My grandad always thought his name was Wilfred Robert, until he got a copy of his birth certificate and found he'd been registered as just Wilfred, so he stopped using the initial R in his signature. I don't think you can register & Christen a child differently now. When my son was Christened 3 yrs ago, we had to show the Vicar his birth certificate, so that he could confirm the name. Helen