Genealogy Chat

Thanks Lisa, Yes, I've been there. It has a lot of history - it was the last church Wren built in the city, although the church there now is a reconstruction - it was rebuilt in the early 60's after being bombed in WW2. The strange name comes from its proximity to a building in which Edward iii kept his state robes! It seems a grand church for a 'lowly' carpenter (my ancestor) to have married in.

I know this is probably irrelevent but I was in London a couple of weeks ago, walked off the Millenium Bridge and theres a sign post to St Andrews by the Wardrobe right in front of you, if you fancy a look! Lisa

Many thanks for that Lyla. No obvious connection with my family, but they may fit in sometime as they are in the right area.

David When it says Of This Parish(OTP) this usually means exactly that. The person was living in that parish at the time of the marriage and had been for a while but it does not necessarily mean that they were born in that parish. If the person is from another parish it will usually say from which parish the person was coming from. Most women married within their own home parishes, just as most women still do today. I had a whole load of my ancestors marrying in a village and they were all of this parish getting married but none of them were born in that village and I had to do a lot of detective work to find out where they were from. I did find them in another village just 3 miles away and they had been there for 200 years so if you are having problems I suggest you arm yourself with the Phillimores Index to Parishes and look to see where they might have come from by a process of elimination. Janet.

The National Archives has a leaflet on appenticeship records http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives(.)gov(.)uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=295 (remove the brackets) There were two types of apprenticeships - parish (for poor children) and private. Poor children were apprenticed out by the parish overseers, often to men in other parishes so they were no longer a burden to their home parish. These records, if they've survived, are part of the parish's poor law records, and should be at the relevant county record office. Doesn't help though if you don't know the parish of origin! Private apprenticeships were undertaken by families who could afford to, though there were many who apprenticed their children for a nominal fee within the family, and these often covered the more common trades. They weren;t subject to formal indenture and even if they were they are very unlikely to have survived. Best of luck, Cazza

I know he was a carpenter - are there records of apprenticeships?

Thanks Zoe - I have a copy and it does say 'of this parish'! Does that indicate he was born in the parish, or merely living there at the time of the marriage?

Many thanks for all suggestions - I'll follow up some of them! The witnesses at the wedding were both on his wifes side and were very useful in proving a direct link which another Genes Reunited user had taken back to 1550! He doesn't show up on the 1851 census, unfortunately, so had possibly passed away by then.

On the parish records did it give the names of witnesses? These were often family members which may give you a clue.

You get into records if you are rich (and money can be taken from you) or if you are poor (and you need money). If you have the christenings of some of your ancestor's children, you know what he did for a living. Might he have been an apprentice? Could he have left a will? There is a book entitled “Lists of Londoners” which might suggest some of the records in which you could find him. Have you found his children in the censuses – not just your own ancestors? There might be cousins, aunts etc staying with them. Is the name uncommon? There is software which maps the data from the 1881 census onto distribution maps, giving a clue as to where surnames originate. Does the parish have good poor law records? If you could find a settlement examination for him, this might tell you how old he was and where he came from. Somebody on the boards is doing city of London burial look ups, but you would need to know which parishes were actually covered. Burials, in any case, will provide very little information, usually just name, date of burial, age and possibly address, though at this period it’s usually just the parish. Happy hunting Brenda

if either of the couple were still alive in 1851, the census should give you an age and birthplace (1841 only tells you whether they were born in the same county they were living in)

Have you looked for a christening on IGI? Parish records might show which parish he was from, at marriage.Did he have an unusual name? Try posting it here, with dates. It may be that he named his first son after his father. We have used that lead to direct us to the right person. Did he have a trade and therefore perhaps apprenticeship records, which might name his father? Who witnessed his marriage? Any help there? Could it be a relative, - a married sister even, if you don't at first recollect the surnames?

I'd suggest gettinng to view the fiche of the original parish registers. This in theory should say "of this parish" indicating that he was from the area he married in or will say "from the parish of......" telling you where he was from. If he and his bride were from different areas they could have chosen to marry in either one. The IGI isn't 100% reliable and its always worthwhile tracking all your finds in the originals anyway just to check on the facts and to see what other info they may have written in about the people you're looking for. Remember the IGI are simply filling a form with the data they find so if the register said "John Smith the postman and his wife Mary" its possible theres another John Smith married to a Mary in th esame church who'd be identified by another means BUT they have no way of saying this on the IGI. The IGI also holds very few deaths so you'd need to trek down the burial registers as well to find his death. Zoe

I have got back to a direct descendent who married in 1810 and have inspected the parish record entry of the marriage ( 06 JUN 1810 Saint Andrew By The Wardrobe, London) I have also traced the christenings of his several children. I cant find any other trace of him (i.e. his death) on Familysearch. Is there any way I can trace his birth and the previous generation (i.e. his parents)? All the family back to this point were based in central London, but he could have been born anywhere. Any help and suggestions gratefully received!