Genealogy Chat

Ooh, thankyou everyone! Thats given me loads to go on. Pat - the shop in question was I think what they called a "house shop" and Im quite sure it was his long-suffering wife who ran it while he spent the proceeds at the Dog n Bottle. His sons kicked him out sometime after the 1881 census and he disappeared, making one last appearance on the family tombstone in 1898. I strongly suspect he had another family somewhere. These Holdens should have really been called Houdini, every one of them has had to be dragged kicking and screaming from their hiding places! Makes me laugh though, cos I come from such a prim and proper family, who thought not wearing gloves was a hanging offence! From rogues and vagabonds to utter respectability in one generation.

Googled and found this: Mail – 12 Dec 1885 Mr. Jarvis of 328, Birchfield Road, was charged with being drunk in charge of a Train Engine; he was fined 20 shillings plus costs or 21 days hard labour. *************** Licensing Act 1872 It is offence to be drunk whilst in charge on any highway or other public place of any horse, cattle, pig, sheep, carriage, motor vehicle, trailer, bicycle or steam engine. The Offender may be Arrested.

Marjorie, Maybe James worked for the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway or the London and North Western Railway and you can check with the local Railway Record Society. I know from some of the Records on Railway workers they would have been very strict. I was reading some entries in a log book about some of the penalites and this poor fellow was sent home early with no pay for being late with his train 3 times in one week, another fellow was docked wages for losing a carriage while driving his train. So I reckon he could have very well lost his job if caught having a tipple on duty. Another suggestion is he may have been lucky enough to get an easier job in a shop, he may have had health problems from working on the Railway. Oh those Holdens don't you just love them LOL> Pat x

You might want to have a look at this site www(.)railwayancestors(.)fsnet(.)co(.)uk/ Maz. XX

Thankyou Gwynne, dont know why I didnt think of that myself, maybe cos I looked on a2a and couldnt refine the search enough to get anything useful. But thanks for that, Ill try National Archives. Cheers Marjorie

Hi, A lot of railway records are held st the National Archives at Kew. Have a look at their website to see what they have. You can also download useful leaflets. Gwynne

My extremely elusive 2 x Grandfather, James Holden, alleges on the 1861 and 1871 census that he is an "Engine Driver" - I am assuming, from family legend, that this was on the Railway and not an engine driver in a factory.By 1881, aged about 55, he is a shop-keeper. Question:Would it have been a dismissal offence back then to be the worse for drink while driving a train? It seems very odd to me that he would have voluntarily given up what must have been quite a good job, before the age of retirement. We know he liked a drop (well more than a drop, actually) and I wondered how strict they were back then about drunken train drivers? This was in Lancashire by the way. Anyone point me to a website which might cover this? Thanks in advance.