Genealogy Chat

Hi I had a bit of a play with the 1881 census and come up with this which may not be of any help but you did mention Amberley but that seems to be the only fit. John Searle 54 born Houghton, Sussex Mary A Searle 51 born Littlehampton Sussex Edward J 22 Amberley Harry 19 Amberley Walter 14 Amberley Sarah A 12 Amberley Edith 9 Amberley Thomas 7 Amberley Lily 3 Amberley If you have Lily's marriage certificate who are the witnesses, are they family members? Ages should always be taken with a pinch of salt. One of mine added and deducted 5 years or so when it suited her. Karen

There are times when my brain definitely hurts. We spent Monday at First Avenue House. We found Lily's administration, a will for one of her daughters and didn't even think to look for Oliver. Thanks for that, Sarah. Lily is driving us demented and I have the horrid feeling that when we find her in 1911, she'll give her birthplace as London or, like Oliver does in 1901, England. It's so good to bounce ideas off other people. Our ideas having been getting steadily more fanciful as we try to square the circle. Brenda

I've been trying to play about with possibilities but nothing has come up so far. The only thing that might, and this is a very slim chance, pick up on a relationship between Lillian and the Searle's is if Oliver left a will. You need to know when he died to get an idea of roughly when the will would come up in the Probate calendar (if he left a will of course). If he did leave a will, its a slim possibility he might mention her. best wishes Sarah

Oliver senior appears to be baptised in Amberley. He can't be found on Ancestry in 1871. As two sons were sailors, it is always possible that he was a sailor in early life. In 1881 he is in Heyshott with his child bride Mary Woolford and baby Emily. Several children are born in Graffham before the family move to Bepton. They appear in 1901 in Bepton Entire. They are actually living in a small hamlet called Linch, within Bepton. All these places follow the curve of the South Downs on the map. There are lots of Searles in Sussex - though so far we have only used the IGI - but Oliver only appears to occur i this family. Brenda

Where abouts in Sussex is Oliver's family?

That's my suspicion, Sarah. I'm sure the truth has to be simple. Unfortunately it'll make it a little more of a challenge trying to find her as we've no idea where she was born. Brenda

Perhaps Lilly was illegitimate? If so she'd be listed under her mother's surname not her father's.

Thanks for that, Sarah. I've considered that Lilian, but if it is the right one, why does she say her father is Oliver whenever asked? I can find no connection between that family and those in Sussex. Not to say there isn't one, but it isn't obvious. Brenda

Thanks Geoff I think that Lily was probably a little younger than that. I suspect she put a couple of years on her age when she married her first husband. She always spelt Lillian with a double ll, but that's no reason for her parents doing the same, of course! My gut instinct is that she is Lillian Grace Eleanor X, born 1882. Unfortunately, freebmd has virtually nothing for that year as yet. Brenda

This is probably not the least bit helpful, but I tried searching for Lillians or Lilys that might match in the 1881 census (she may have been older than she let on?) The only thing I found was a Lillian Eleanor, daughter of a James. James SEARLE Head M Male 40 Finchd, Berkshire, England Carpenter Elizabeth SEARLE Wife M Female 39 Barkham, Berkshire, England Frank SEARLE Son Male 16 Wokm, Berkshire, England Tailor James SEARLE Son Male 3 Wokm, Berkshire, England Scholar Lilian Eleanor SEARLE Daur Female 7 m Wokm, Berkshire, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Waterloo Road Census Place Wokingham, Berkshire, England Family History Library Film 1341318 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1310 / 107 Page Number 11

If we could find her birth certificate, Nell, we'd be happy bunnies. We cannot find the birth of a Lillian Grace Eleanor Searle circa 1882. She is not brought up by the Oliver Searle in Sussex, under the christian names she uses in adult life. This Oliver is not Irish, nor is his wife - healthy enough to survive 20 years marriage - French. She could have been born in Ireland, but there is no suggestion that she had an Irish accent, so if that were the case she must have come to the country as a small child.

FreeBMD has no Lilian Searles born in Sussex 1875-85 but has this Births Jun 1878 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SEARLE Lilian Holborn 1b 825

Brenda Not sure I understand what you think Lily is lying about. Her parents would be on her birth cert. Does she have different fathers on her marriage certs? nell

Lillian Grace Eleanor Searle, a daughter of Oliver Searle, a farmer married twice. In 1905 she said she was 25 (husband was 50) when she married in Holborn, London In 1916 she said she was 34 (husband was 34) when she married in Peckham, Kent Amongst her effects was a photo of Olly – Oliver Searle. Olly was a sailor. We have found his naval record and he is a son of another Oliver Searle a farm labourer. This is a Sussex family, found on censuses in 1881, 1891 and 1901. The obvious solution is that Olly and Lillian are brother and sister. But there is no sign of her in the family. The legend is that Lillian’s mother was a French actress and her father an Irish farmer. (A photograph purporting to be of her mother shows a woman who most certainly is NOT a farm labourer’s wife.) The mother died in childbirth and the father drank himself to death. She was supposed to have been brought up by her first husband and his wife, marrying him after his first wife died. Lillian, known in the family as Lily, cannot be identified on the 1891 or 1901 census. She was not living with her first husband. Is this a woman who has completely reinvented herself? Has she chosen an ex-boyfriend’s identity to provide a father for herself? Is the fact that her details on both marriage certificates are identical proof of truthfulness or the grim holding to a lie?

Any suggestions as to which parts of Lily's story are likely to be true would be gratefully accepted.