Genealogy Chat

One of my relatives died of Phthisis Pneumonia, on 10th June 1887. This, according to paul_smith(.)doctors(.)org(.)uk means pulmonary tuberculosis. Although he does indicate that Phthisis itself literally means a wasting disease and could be used for any severe lung or throat affection. But she had given birth to a son on the 18th of May only 2 weeks before. The son survived and appears to have grown up to be healthy. Before I got the cert, I had assumed that she'd died in childbirth. Is it really likely that someone in the final throws of TB could give birth to a child ? Or is there a complication of childbirth that might be given this label ?? Ann

I'm not a medical person but I would have thought that her TB may not have been so bad 9 months before and then she wouldn't have much choice about giving birth.

I realise that she could have been OK 9 months previously. But childbirth is a pretty energetic process - exhausting for even a healthy mother. I think that this was her first child - so 6-12 hours labour ? This was in 1887, the child was born at home, so there was little or no medical intervention. It just seems unlikely to me that she had the stamina. Although, I suppose the disease could have been not so far advanced but just prevent her from recovering from the strain of childbirth.

Yes, seriously, I think your probably right. Enjoyed TERRI's little ditty though - it's good to have a laugh. Chris

My grandmother died of Phthisis and Heart Failure in 1912. Exactly a year before she had given birth to a little boy who died within 3 months. My grandmother lived in Dalston and the baby died in Bethnal Green where there is a chest hospital. I do not have the death certificate for the baby but assume it was affected by the T.B. my grandmother had. Not really sure if T.B. can be passed to the baby in the womb though. Viv. I have been trying to send this for ages but the board was down.

Another snippet to the phthisis train of thought. My GGgrandmother died of Phthisis pulmonaris (ie TB) 5 months after giving birth. Her 1846 death cert states the TB was certified 5 months before she died, so she was probably diagnosed when she gave birth. The child she had lived until she was at least 23 and had her own child. This was all in slummy Greenwich, Kent, so there would have been no sanatoruim, fresh air, and good food for them. Jo

I have two women in my family who died of Phthisis. One was 24 and had had 3 babies in 4 years. Her death notice from the hospital says she had suffered from Phthisis for months. Her youngest daughter was 14 months old at the time. The other woman was 33 and had been ill for 2 years. She had 2 children, the youngest 2 1/2 at the time of his mother's death.

My g g granddad James Medhurst and his wife Annie nee Whittle both died of Phthisis in 1877/8. Hardly surprising really, they lived at number 4, Cold Bath Street, Greenwich!

Phthisis is an old-fashioned term for pulmonary [ie in the lungs] tuberculosis. This type of TB was also called consumption, the wasting disease and the white plague. It is infectious and was rife in Victorian times. In this country everyone is vaccinated, but nearly one third of the world's population is infected with TB and it kills nearly 3 million people a year. Pneumonia is caused by about 30 different things and there is also a disease called "tuberculosis pneumonia". I imagine that the pneumonia set in as a result of the stress of childbirth. Incidentally, TB in pregnant women is not usually a problem in terms of either giving birth or passing the illness on to the fetus.

Helen, Thanks for the information.Think I'll have to order the death certificate to find out what happened to the baby. Viv.

The symptoms of TB can be less during pregnancy.My Nan knew someone who had TB and kept on getting pregnant to relieve it.Unfortunately I don't think she managed to carry to term.This was in about the 1920's.

Helen, Thanks very much for your explanation. That makes things a lot clearer. It is possible that the mother had been weak for a number of years before the pregnancy as she does not appear to have had a child in the first 4 years of marriage. It makes sense that the birth could have finished her off.... Ann

My grandmother Daisy Shipley married George Jackson in South Shields on 10 June 1915. She gave birth to my mother on 1 July 1915 at her father's house and died there on 12 Sept 1915. The death certificate says "phthisis 14 months". She had only returned from Australia in 1914. So yes, it IS possible. Wendy

I don't know anything about this, but just reading the responses it struck me how sad some of these stories are- and made me feel grateful to modern medicine & pain relief during labour!!! I broke the mouth piece off the gas & air machine during my labour because I was gripping it so tight- I can well imagine how awful it must have been to give birth with no pain relief and suffering from TB! Thank God we don't have to suffer like that anymore!!