Genealogy Chat

i have found that my grt grt grt grandad may have been married and had two children ,before he married my grt grt grt gran . i am looking for a birth record of his eldest son john o hara born around 1836 in county clare . my grt grt grt grandads name was luke o hara born where ? in 1815 . could anyone point me in the right direction to go with this , i would be greatfull for any help.

Try www.clarelibrary.ie. If this is of no help then for records around 1815 you are going to need a lot of luck. Irish state records did not start until 1864. Pre 1864 you are into parish records. Most Catholic parish records seem to date from around 1795 which seems to be the earliest and many did not start until 1825 or so. Protestant Records in some occasions go back to the 1600's. To succeed with Irish family history you must understand the following terms: Barony/ Townland/Parish and you will need to know all these to research anything in Clare should you wish to go to Ireland to do your research. Some counties are "closed " to the public which means no accession to the registers for any reason. This means paying someone to do the research. I think that Clare is open to the public but do check this out. Provided you know the Barony, Townland, Parish and whether Catholic or Protestant records then you can research records from Dublin otherwise you will have to trek all around the parishes of interest in County Clare. Janet

Janet, How or where do I find out whether Co. Monaghan is a 'closed' or an 'open' county for research? There's nothing on line that I can find, & my daughter's thinking about driving me over there for a few days to search on the spot. Will we be wasting our time? It's the censuses & parish records that will be most use. The Barony/Townland/Parish references are saved, but where to go from there? Any help much appreciated!

thanks for your help janet , bit of a needle in a haystack this one , dont have much to go on . thanks regards jackie.

Mary Try this website: http://www.nli.ie/new_what_res.htm This is the web site for the National Library of Ireland, Kildare Street Dublin 2. This is for research in Southern Ireland. I do not know anything about research in Northern Ireland. The equivalent for Northern Ireland would be GRONI Belfast. You could browse here and see what they have that is of interest to you. I go there every year for research and they are very helpful. They also have a room where you can ask some questions re your genealogy problems as well as a newspaper collection for the whole of ireland. However remember that ALL the Irish newspapers are also here in London at the Colindale Newspaper Library. As regards "closed access" this applies only to records PRE 1864 and as I understand only applies to parts of Southern Ireland. The Archbishop of Cashel and Emly is the main problem as although it states at the NLI that you can access with bisop's permission, this is incorrect as I wrote to the Archbishop last year and was given a definite "No" to my enquiries. His diocese is mainly Tipperary and parts of Limerick. The other Diocese where you will have to write for permission to see the records is Kerry. I wrote last year for permission to search and was granted permission. I have heard rumours that other diocese were having problems and thought that Co. Clare MIGHT have been included, which is why I urged the need to check before a visit. I really do not know anything about County Monaghan. If you want records from 1864 to present then you will need the Registration Office in Dublin at Joyce House or the equivalent site for Northern Ireland. The only census available are 1901 and 1911 and you should be able to access those without a trip to Dublin or Belfast. There are fragments of others but scattered around. If you are thinking of a trip to Ireland then you need some knowledge of where you are going and access the local library nearest to your place of interest. If you know the EXACT parish then a visit to the local church to ask nicely to see the parish records can often be very fruitful. A donation for church funds will always be acceptable. Again I can only speak for Southern Ireland. Try this web site for Monaghan. I did a google search. http://ahd.exis.net/monaghan/default.htm Janet

thanks for all your help and suggestions .most of my research has been scottish , but i am know into ireland and its very difficult from searching scottish records , i have been lucky and had some help which has got me more than i could have hoped . i think a trip to ireland maybe on the cards soon , thanks again regards jackie.

Jackie. I am just about to embark on Scottish records. I have done a little and their death certs are wonderful but I now need the time to do a lot of work on my Scottish roots! Janet

hi janet . scotlands people is a great site , if you havent already tried ,give it a go , costs £6 for 30 credits and you can view the image. well worth the money. i live in glasgow so if i can help with anything just give me a shout . good luck , jackie.

cheers for that philip , regards jackie.

Janet, That's brilliant, thanks! Every site I've found before this said 'nothing on line' for Monaghan, including pay-sites. Leitrim Roscommon site had nothing for Monaghan, either. After 2 short visits to Dublin Registrar's office, I've got my dad's birth cert- which mum said was lost in the 1922 fire, & my grandparents' marriage cert. Trawling through the indexes is very slow work. So the National Library sounds much more hopeful- will try that one next! Monaghan is in the Republic, along with Cavan & Donegal ,though they're 3 of the 9 counties of Ulster Province, so I don't think the PRONI will hold much that Dublin hasn't got. It might be worth a try if all else fails! Thanks for your help,Janet, it encourages me to keep trying. The secretary of my local history society here told me I'd get nowhere with Ireland- that there weren't any records available! All the best, Mary

Mary. Don't believe those who say you will not get anywhere with Irish History. It is VERY hard work but you can peel little bits back each visit which is very satisfying. I have Irish cousins who are happy for their English cousin to do the "TREE"! I find I learn more and more if I immerse myself in the full Irish history. If I can get back to 1796 on one line in Tipperary then anyone can do it and Tipperary has been a hard grind. Get friendly with the locals of your area of interest and use the local libraries. The Irish have so much info in their heads but they do not write it down!! Their local newspapers have a lot of info. I must admit I was thrown when I saw that Monaghan was in Ulster as I thought it was South but thanks for puttng me right. Good luck. Jackie I might get back to you on the Scottish side as I want to find out about a shipping Co. in Glasgow so I may be writing to you to pick your brains. I am hoping to use Scotlands people within the next few weeks. Thanks. Janet

Karen Thanks for the info re Malcolm and Scotland. Where are your Irish folk from? What counties? Janet

Janet, Monaghan IS in 'the south'- that is, in the Republic. But I was raised in England by a father who insisted that, because all my 'blood' is Irish, then I am Irish- with my broad north of England accent! :-)) Dad said that there were 9 counties in the historic 'Province' of Ulster- Armagh, (London)derry, Down, Antrim, Fermanagh & Tyrone, (which he described as being 'occupied'!) , plus Monaghan, Cavan & Donegal, which have always been in the Republic. He described them as the 3 'fighting' counties, the ones that 'escaped'. It's more likely that the border was drawn for political reasons, around the counties which related most closely to Britain. Certainly my father's predjudices were all political, because at 9 1/2 years old he went to work for a family of the 'opposite persuasion'. He lived in with them, visiting his mother at weekends, but always spoke with great affection & respect of this family, who saw him grow into a man. They went to enormous trouble to make sure he could fulfill his religious duties, and were generous friends to him., helping him to complete his education at night school. This would have been in the difficult years, from around 1916- 1927, when dad came to England. He served in WWII, & lived here happily till his death. As you say, understanding as much history as possible, & talking to local people is the best kind of 'Irish research', but not always easy to do! Once they know you have a local connection, the 'tracing' begins- you'll have a family tree, more or less accurate, in an hour or two-the actual relationships may be vague, beyond the nuclear family, but then you need to check it out- now that is a lifetime's work! But a great hobby! :-) Janet, thanks for all your advice & help, good luck, Mary

Mary I can relate to all that you are saying! Only my "hotbed" starts a bit earlier about the 1840's through to the 1850's and even 1860's! I am sure that you may well appreciate that Tipperary and Cork were veritable "hotbeds" at this time. I have been lucky in finding older cousins to talk before they died and learnt a lot from them. I have also been lucky to find cousins in America who have helped me tremendously. The internet has offered me many useful leads into my Irish roots. Being one third Irish, one third Scottish and one third English with a London accent but even my English bit managed some Irish, I am no longer sure where my roots lie! My husband's roots are in Wexford about 1798!! Janet