Genealogy Chat

I was just on ebay looking for census cd's and was shocked to find that some people were actually 'selling' look-ups on various indexes and cd,s that they own. Now, I,m not a goody-goody but isn,t there some kind of copywright law against this? When I think of all the good people on this site who do look-ups for free, I can,t believe that some people would try to make a fast buck out of such a great hobby. How do other GC members feel about this?

Hi Carol I'm sure I read something on here the other day about that. And, yes, I think the upshot was that it was illegal. Pitty the poor fools that pay for a look up when they could join GC and pay 7.50 a year for numerous look ups - and make lots of new friends into the bargain. Jeanette

Can't see how it's illegal. If you want to pay someone to do research that's up to you. That they are using cd's, books, or PRO's makes no difference. They are not copying them. Bob

I have a census disk for the 1851 census. In the accompanying booklet it says in the FAQ - Can I charge people a fee to let them use my xxx? No. It is not fair to "rent" your cds. Such use, especially if you publicise an offer, is in violation of Fair Use because it harms marketing potential. The more people you try to attract with you offer, the clearer your intention to profit is shown, and the greater you violation of our copyright. You can however charge people a fee for your research services if you look up info for them on your CD and use it as part of the overall fam history you're compilling. Thats because you are adding your own value to the information. Asking someone to pay for a screen download is so similar to renting your CD that it can't be considered Fair Use. Thats what the booklet says anyway! Sounds a bit complicated for someone like me who can't even install the CD to look whats on it anyway! Rachel

There are a lot of things going on on ebay, and in connection with the site that must be "dodgy" to put it a better way. But have you tried contacting them to tell them about it??? I have, and found it so complex and convoluted as to be impossible. I am afraid that I made the mistake of signing up sometime ago, and have found it impossible to remove my details, no matter how much I try, due to the complexities of the system. It seem that if your comments are positive there is not a problem. If they are negative, they seem to lead a person up the never-ending path, until giving up seems to be the only option. That, plus the countless "SPAM" messages about auction results etc. is leading me to believe that in some ways it is a con. Surely a "concientious" company would be willing to monitor what is going on with their site, and make attempts to prevent illegal use of their name (or is it illegal??). I am prepared to take the backlash for this posting, but will stste that it is personal thoughts only. I would love to find out that the company is decent, and prepared to do something about what happens on their site, rather than just rub their hands together and count the money. Paul

I worked for nearly 10 years as a professional genealogist and I'd say, YES, it is both illegal and unfair to advertise and charge just for look-ups. Unfortunately there are always going to be people willing to pay for the information. I just hope that the vast majority of excellent professionals, who also buy data to use at home, don't get tarred with the same brush, as they offer a complete family history service and most will use their home data as a finding aid only, backing up their research with copies or transcripts of the original documents. They also spend hours of their own time giving clients free advice. The only time a professional would charge for lookups alone is when their client specifically requested it. Sorry to sound as if I'm on my high horse! but I get so cross when I think that there are people out there, who might not even have an interest in family history, let alone any real experience, buying and selling data to earn a fast buck. Best wishes, Carole

Thanks everyone for the feed-back. I feel that I must add that Ebay as a company seems, in general, to do a good job. What I was upset about this morning (and still am) are the unscrupulous people that are willing to throw decency and ethics out the window in search of the almighty dollar (or pounds). If needs be, I am quite prepared to pay a professional researcher to do my leg-work for me, which would spoil half the fun of this hobby, but I defintely would not pay some greedy little schemer to do likewise. 'Nuff said. I,m putting my soap-box away now.

I wouldn't have thought doing it for payment was legal. Whether it is or not, it's still morally wrong to charge people for these look ups, lets hope they soon see the light!! Lynda

i don't know if it's legal or not but I did notice someone selling look-ups a few weeks ago and was suprised. I can understand some people wanting a return on the CD's they have purchased themselves but once you've used them, re-sell them. Isn't that the easy option? I personally wouldn't charge.. I recently went traipsing around the local churchyard in the rain with my camera, and then onto the library where I printed off relevant copies of church records and posted all of it for free to someone who requested help on here. I did it all for free because when it comes down to it, I have had some great help from people on here, I always offer to pay if someone is going to be out of pocket and no one ever wants anything but thanks. Naomi

Hi Carol, I think it's illegal. Several of my census cd's are from Archive CD Books. So encrypted and Copyrighted? are their cd's I can't even copy & paste the license. But basically it says this: ..." These images are supplied for information & personal research only. No reproduction may be made for publication without the permission of the Public Record Office London, and Archive CD Books. You may not make copies of the data. You may not publish or sell any portion of the data in printed, electronic or any other format without prior written consent. You may not advertise free lookups from the contents of the priduct" ....."The software or documentation may not be loaned, rented or leased or used for any other form of remunerated gain" Debbie

Hi Theresa, I just noticed your comment about becoming a professional, and finding it hard to justify charging for the research. I stopped working professionally 4 years ago at a time when the internet was of little use to most people, certainly compared to today. The internet, and this site in particular, has brought family history into the reach of thousands of people who might otherwise have not become interested and that can only be a good thing, but sometimes it isn't possible or practicle for us to access the records we need to search, especially when we need to see the original documents. This is when the professional researcher is invaluable. There are still huge amounts of records that remain untranscribed and many that people find hard to read or understand, but they can be sources of vital information, especially when we find ourselves stuck. I will admit that when I was working there were genealogists who charged in excess of £20 an hour, and I can't justify that amount, but there were (and no doubt still are) many people, including myself, who worked part-time, working around family commitments, and charging less than it costs to employ a cleaner. I could never have made a living from it. If you look in the small ads in a magazine like Family Tree, I'm sure many will still be advertising. I knew researchers who charged around £5 an hour, didn't charge for travelling time or expenses, or for the time it took them in the evenings to collate the information and make out a report. They were genuinely helpful people, who enjoyed every moment, put as much effort into their work as they would have done had the family been their own, had a genuine interest in family history with a lot of experience and local knowledge. Clients were varied and included those living overseas to those with little or no time or inclination to do the research themselves, to those who found it impossible to travel to record offices etc. I still don't agree with charging for look-ups per se, but I do think that researchers who charge a reasonable fee for their time and their expertise in researching a person's family history, have a valuable contribution to make. As you live in Ireland, I'm sure you would have lots of people requiring your assistance, as I had many clients who found an Irish ancestor but had extreme difficulty in finding a researcher who wasn't already up to their eye-balls in work! I hope this doesn't sound as if I'm on a mission - I just felt compelled to champion the cause of those researchers who provide an excellent service without charging over the odds. Best wishes, Carole

Debra, You should be able to keep a copy of any of your Cd's from Archive books on your hard drive, i have all of mine on my hard drive.Perhaps you should try again. Steve.

If they want to get paid for their time in helping people with their look-ups, then why don't they advertise like any other tax paying person? Answer - If they advertise there services and get paid for it then yes they answer to the taxman who will eventually comes knocking on the door. They direct their services mainly to the unsuspecting ie in foreign lands who unfortunately are being fleeced, when as you rightly say our little volunteers do look-ups for nilch. Perhaps GC should be advised more to our overseas cousins. Linda