Genealogy Chat

John, your Grandfather James Pettifer, Was he based at a particular prision or did he move up and down the country, where ever needed? I have a relative hung at Nottingham prison in 1922 and im trying find out who hung him.

Rosi - you're very welcome! Janice - I know the archives of the local papers of that time are kept at the British Library, and also in Aberdare, however I live in Peterborough and time and money is the problem!!!! Although I keep meaning to ring Aberdare library to see if some very nice person might take a look for me!!! John - if that were the case, I'm not one to take offence that easily! (Besides, the culprit isn't a blood relative, just by marriage!!!!) Thanks all. Nina

My Grandfather, James Pettifer was a hangmans assistant. Wonder if he was involved in any of these? If so, remember, it was only a job !! John R

Hi Nina Have you tried the local papers to see if they did a write up on it. Jan

Nina - it's so nice of you. Far from objecting when I muscled in on your 'thread' you dropped your own research and helped me with mine. You are a star - thankyou. Perhaps I should now try to distance myself from my brother and sisters! It was their father who was a Kearns and possibly connected to the miscreant! Nothing to do with me - mine was another sort of villain maybe. I will now be looking on some of the websites suggested to see if I can find a press cutting or a record re why he was transported and if there is any substance to this 'rope breaking so he wasn't hung' story. But praps I ought to find a real not conjectured link to the chap first! Thanks again - Rosi

Rosi, It's not much but I found it on gencircles(.)com Patrick alias Moses Kearns Born: c1805 Ireland Died: 1843 NSW Australia Emigration: 1826 'Boyne' Sydney NSW convict life Married: 24/10/1836 To Dorothea Carthy (bn 17/10/1813, Moira Down, Ireland) Children: Moses Cairns, bn 19/5/1838 James Raymond Alcoyn Kearns/Cairns, bn 11/2/1840 William Kearns, bn 1842 I hope this helps! You never know where a bit of family hearsay may lead you!! That's how it started with the murder in my family search! I hope this proves just as fruitful!! Nina

Nina - not as yet - bro. does not come back on line until Monday- he doesn't have a pc at home. Would liketo know more asap. What do you know/ have found? OOh! Rosi Ps There is a vague as yet unproved Irish connection. So this may be part of it. Also a connection with wrecks and Spanish Armadas - and thus Mediterranean colouring - but dunno!

Try www(.) murderresearch(.)com... Joan

Gill, What a star!!! Thank you, I hadn't thought of that. Something else for me to see at Kew!! Thanks again. Nina

I just typed "Joseph Augustus Payton" into the online catalogue for the PRO at Kew (http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/). The reference for the records of his trial in 1917 is: ASSI 72/43/2 Gill

Rosi, Do you have any idea of how long ago this was? I thought I'd have a break from my search and have found a Moses Kearns, bn 1805 in Ireland, emigrated to Australia as a convict in 1826 - anything match? Nina

just anecdotal - but slightly (?) relevant to this thread. My sister casually mentioned to me yesterday that our kid brother told her that he had read an artilce in a mag/newspaper some years ago that indicated that a rellie of ours, a 'Moses Kearns' was about to be hanged (hung?) when the rope broke. Such was the trauma- that he was pardoned!. I have looked in a coupla places after having heard this news, (Ancestry, LDS) but can find no trace of a likely Moses Kearns, let alone of the above story. I will follow this thread with interest to see where else I might look - such an event- if it happened - must have been newsworthy! Rosi

Thank you all again! I shall try the black sheep site in a bit, and will try and find out which coroners office I need. For the purpose of that long shot (!) my GG Grandmothers name was Matilda Payton, nee Doward. She was killed by Joseph Augustus Payton, in Llanbradach 12/2/1917. Thanks again you lovely people, Nina

Hello Nina at the mo' I am reading a book called "The Rochdale Hangman" it as the story of John Ellis the hangman born in Rochdale and travelled the country to do hangings, It tells the story about the murderer and a little about the person they murdered if you give me the names and area you are looking for I will look and see if I can find anything in this book.Might be a real long shot but worth a try. Jan

Dear Nina, try entering (the black sheep index) into google there is a site about police records/hangings/black sheep/ etc:the addy is something like...........wwwdotlightage/demondotsomething??? Steve in Chester

Ask the local Coroner's Office. They should have a record of all public executions, or they should be able to tell you where such records are held. It is almost certain that the Home Office must have such information. Good luck with it! John

Thank you both for the above, unfortunately the culprit wasn't listed, maybe he was imprisoned, or maybe he got away with it! Although I did find a link to murderfile(.)com which for a fee can try and help in research into murders. Fingers crossed!

http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.*co.uk/hanged1.html (delete *)

Hello Nina Try this website http://www(.)richard(.)clark32(.)btinternet(.)co(.)uk/newgate(.)html at the bottom of the page it has a list of names from 1900-1932. Shirley

I've recently discovered that my G grandmother was murdered by her husband, and whilst I plan to go and search the newspaper archives, to find out more info, I can not get there just yet. I'm assuming he may have been hanged for this, as it was in 1917 and I'm wondering if there are records of those hung, and where/ how I can find them.......can anyone help???