Genealogy Chat

Please see below.

[Note: I believe I posted something similar when I first joined GC, but didn't have as much information then.] I've been searching for my ancestor, James Mumford (gt-gt-grandfather), for 25 years (off and on). He just doesn't want to confirm his identity and I think it is now time to stop searching for him. I would be very interested to hear your opinions -- have I found the correct one? The confusion is that there are several James Mumford's born around the same time, and there are several places in England named Hatfield. I would be thrilled to hear ALL opinions, as the more I have, the more I will believe I've found the correct Mumford. From various documents, I've learned the following about my ancestor: James Mumford, born 26-Oct-1826 in Hatfield, England to the parents of James and Martha Mumford. James married Susanna(h?) Vaus 17-Mar-1857, place unknown. James left England and arrived in Canada prior to 1858, as that is when his first child was born in Ontario, Canada. James had four children; he named his first son James. Two of his children named their first-born sons James; the other son named his second-born son James. James' (b1826) occupation in Toronto, Canada was butcher. All three boys became butchers as well. Someone I've been in touch with (a Mumford descendant, born in the same area I was) for the past 25 years, has the following information about her ancestor's BROTHER. (Her ancestor came to Ontario, Canada in 1848.): James Mumford born 1800, Dunmow, Essex. According to his father's will, James lived in Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex in 1826, and his occupation was butcher. A James Mumford married Martha Grange in 1822 in Hatfield Broad Oak (HBO), Essex. (A James and Martha married in HBO -- just don't know if it was THE James born in 1800.) James and Martha had eight children while living in HBO: their first son was named James and he was christened 16-Jan-1827. Father's occupation: butcher. James (b1800) had a father named James and a grandfather named James. There is an 1841 census for Dunchurch, Warwickshire that shows a James MUMFORD, age 15, occupation Butcher J, born in county: no. "Max" found a marriage for a James Mumford in the March quarter of 1857 in St. George(?), but someone else found information about the spouse, and it is not the correct spouse. I just received the 1901 Canadian Census for my James Mumford and it shows his date-of-birth as 1825 (however, his death certificate does state 1826, as well as his burial record). It also shows "year of immigration to Canada": 1867! (I'm hoping it was 1857??) I don't know how to begin looking for a passenger ship, since I don't know when he left England, nor do I know if he landed in America or Canada. Please may I have your opinion? Do you think the James born in 1800 and "my" James are father and son? I hate to "assume" they are related, as I did that once before with another ancestor, and found out 20 years later that we weren't related! Opinions VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

Errrrrrrrr Bit tricky….. the James married in 1822 seems to be the one you need but!!!!! The marriage in 1857 could be St. George in the East ( this is a reg. District around Stepney), which is in Middlesex but close to Essex but you seem to think this is not the right one. The birth dates from census can be tenuous and also the fact people were not sure when they were born? I take it you have looked at the Ellis Island site for ships? Sorry if this is rambling but as you have had no reply I was trying to help. Have you tried the 1841 and 1851 census to see if you can find? I think you have the right one but I know what you mean re following the wrong one. Good Luck John

Hi John, thanks for your suggestions. I should investigate the 1857 marriage again -- perhaps I made a mistake in believing it was the wrong spouse. Others have checked census' for me and oddly enough the dates are exactly right -- the 1841 census showed James (b1800) and his family, with everyone being the exact age they were supposed to be (I know back then dates were off by several years, but not for this family). My James is not listed with 1800-James; he shows up in a neighbouring county; which once again is not unusual for a 15 year old. I believe the 1851 Essex census was checked (notes are buried at the moment) and he is not to be found. Ellis Island -- James would have been in Canada by that time. I checked inGeneas (website) -- no record (yet) of James' arrival in Canada. (They add records as they obtain them.) Thank you for your help, though. I DO appreciate it! Good luck with your searches.

Anyone else have an opinion before I put the Mumford binder away forever? Can only beat your head against a brickwall for so many years.

Hi Lisa Sorry I was not a lot of help. Two things First the 1841 census, I take it you know that ages were rounded up or down on this? This could throw your ages out? Secondly, don't give up just imagine the feeling when you do find and you seem so close. Perhaps you should subscribe to this address............ it's free and ask for some help there. There seems to be some helpful people there. [email protected] Good luck and let me know how you get on. John PS it also helps nudge you up. lol

Hi John. When I've read about others ready to give up, I usually post a message telling them not to. However, in this case, I just don't know what else to do. (I AM going to check that 1857 marriage tomorrow -- it's midnight here.) Records in Canada prior to 1860 are very limited. I've not found anything to confirm that he was born in Hatfield Broad Oak: I've checked and have copies of 1871, 1881, 1901 Canadian census; death certificate; burial records; marriage record is not to be found; I've written to several churches in Toronto; generous people have checked VRI's; I believe the 1851 Essex census doesn't show a James Mumford near his age; the 1841 census shows whom I think his parents are and what would be his siblings--their ages have not been rounded up or down and are correct as is; and I have printouts from the church in HBO showing a christening of a James three months after my James was born. Canada does not have a census for 1861 or 1851 (that I know of). I shall try the site you recommended, thank you! I don't mind brick walls, as I'm a very patient person, but I'm just so frustrated. Through the help of someone else, "we've" found a lead on an ancestor I haven't researched in years -- perhaps it is time I spent the same amount of hours looking up this ancestor -- I may actually get new clues. Thank you VERY much for your concern, John.

Hi Lisa, DONT give up HOPE. I received an e-mail this morning from someone in Canada, he was looking in the Lancs List not Genes. He saw my maiden name and ask if there was a connetion, and there was. Now I have someone I didnt know about who has information I needed, it was FANTASTIC. Who knows what tomorrow may bring. Denise M/C

Hi Lisa Just re-read my message and the web site address is ESSEX-UK-(at)rootsweb(.)com John PS keep going cos when the wall falls it falls big time

Never give up. say a prayer to saint Jude. Janet

Hi everyone. I've just checked my records and found that on December 28 two people (at the same time) had checked 1837 for me -- no Susanna Vaus marrying a James Mumford in 1857. I shall try looking for a marriage in 1858 and 1856, can't hurt to try. Denise: I'm so happy for you! This past week another GC member found confirmation that we are connected by the Vaus line; this is only the third time in 25 years I've found another (distant) relative. I bet you are thrilled to have made contact with a relative AND received information!! John: Thanks for the update. I tried the site last night and found it. I shall check more tonight, when I have time. As far as the wall falling: I have found out more about James during the past two years than I did in the prior 23 years. I know what you mean about it crumbling -- it's just that I don't know what else I can do. I have even written to people on other sites, who posted their information about the HBO Mumfords -- they never wrote back. :~( And I kept my email to three short sentences -- unlike this thread that can bore people to tears. :~) Janet: I shall try that too. Perhaps that may help. Everyone: Thank you so much for your encouragement. I will try everything tonight. I found another lead for my Ovens ancestors on Friday; I think I'll devote more time to that part of the family and perhaps continue the Mumford side in a few months, rather than filing them away forever. I really, really appreciate your help and support. The best of luck with your searches!