Genealogy Chat

hi stan this would just be another spanner in the works! Iknow ellen was illiterate as the birth cert for one of her daughters has the mark of ellen jeffray on it . could nthis explain the difference in spelling? thanks Sue

Hi, Susan I've had a good look at the 1891 census entry. See what you think if Lucy sends it to you, but while James is certainly correct, his name is spelt Jaffray, while Ellen's is spelt Jeffrey. I looked several times. It is the same handwriting, so is this deliberate? If so the inferences might be interesting. Best wishes Stan

Susan, I've seen the schedule on ancestry and it is definitely James - which doesn't mean to say it was written incorrectly on the schedule - I'm not sure whether households submitted forms which the enumerator copied or whether the enumerator knocked on doors and asked for the information. Either way email me and I'll forward you a copy of the schedule. Emma.

hi jan no haven't seen transcript, as you say it is possible that the handwriting could make it look like james instead of thomas . i feel sure this is the same family perhaps james was his second name as he had a son called thomas and ellenmay have called him james to avoid confusion sue

Are you sure that Thomas was changed to James? Have you viewed the actual handwriting? If you look at the shape of the two names, one could easily be transcribed as the other if the writing isn't too clear. Jan.

emma thanks very much for info. of course changing forename from thomas to james suprised me (i should know better in this game!) this does indeed support my theory that ellen had been married before and i will order marriage cert now once again thanks very much sue

Susan, Freebmd Sep qtr 1887 Ellen Fitzgibbon Thomas Jeffrey 8c 1046 Good luck, Emma.

Hi Susan, Have now found them on the 1891 census - just to confuse things they were indexed as Jaffray and Ellen's husband's name is James. James Jaffray, head, mar, 30, mineral water carter, Lancashire Manchester Ellen Jaffray, wife, mar, 27, Ireland Thomas G Jaffray, son, 3, Lancashire Manchester Margaret M Jaffray, daur, 1, Lancashire Manchester Ellen Fitzgibbon, step daur, 8, scholar, Lancashire Liverpool 8 Brookside RG12/3194, Folio 113, page 27 Manchester, Hulme, Lancashire Also looks like Ellen had been married before! Hope this helps Emma.

Hi Lucy thomas jeffrey b 1861 ellen nee donovan b 1863 thomas junior born1888 margaret 1890 david 1892 joseph 1896 elsie 1898 doris 1900 my gran with the exception of ellen who was born in ireland all the rest are manchester based i have no access to 1891 census thanx sue .this is driving me crazy!

Hi Susan, Just a quick point - Have you found your family on the 1891 census? I had a quick look and couldn't find either of them. What area would they have been in? Emma.

maybe? Fiona PS I have not found this problem with my families. God help me when and if I do.

fiona cross-checked with husbands name no luck i'm afraid i'm wondering if my original theory was right and ellen fitzgibbon is really ellen donovan perhaps she was married before and used her first married name as her maiden name on birth cert.what do you think? sue

Took your request to Members board and Shelli Coulby said there was a marriage for Ellen Donovan in September 1889. this is from FreeBMD Marriages Sep 1889 Donovan Ellen Manchester 8d 392 Hope its the one. You need to check this using the mans name. Fiona

Thanks Fiona Barton R is in gloucestershire so probably not the right one but who knows?just everything else ties up with lancashire. thought i'd found the marriage on bmd in chorlton date about right but was an ellen fitzgibbon not donovan as on daughters birth cert!

I have just done a search for you and in 1888 I found Ellen Donovan married in a place called Barton R. Dont know what the R is and I cant find a reference to it in my atlas either. There were several options in 1887 but not in Manchester area. The areas were: Mile End, Marylebone and Bedwellty which is in Wales. Sorry Fiona

Hi Fiona I looked on 1837 but could'nt see him maybe i'll have to try again thanks Sue

Try searching 1837online.its pay per search but you should be able to find it on there. Fiona

Stumped again! Looking for any info on THOMAS JEFFREY born 1861 Manchester and wife ELLEN DONOVAN born 1863 Ireland married around 1887 possibly in Manchester but i can't find any reference of this . Have tried bmd and lancs bmd with no luck -any ideas please thanks sue