Genealogy Chat

Help!! My great grandfather was Frederick Roles.According to his marriage certificate his birth was in 1878 but the GRO only have a Frederick Roles in 1877 in Edmonton and 1880 a Frederick Roles born in Coat, Somerset.The only other thing I know is that his father was also called Frederick. 1901,1891 and 1881 census' are coming up with nothing for this Frederick Roles in Edmonton and I really need to find his father's name to eliminate him.Help!!!Where do I go from here?Any help/advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Sinead.

Have you tried different variations of his surname ie Rolt, Rolf, Rolph, Roles. Where do you think they were from exactly? John

I would be inclined to apply for the 1877 Edmonton birth certificate. 1 year out is hardly anything considering one of my ancestors was 3 years older than the stated age on his marriage certificate and subsequent cencuses differed even more! If you apply to the relevant register office they will send your cheque back to you if the fathers don't tie up, so its worth the risk. In those days very few could write their name let alone remember when they were born! Marion

Sinead, There's a Frederick Roles married to an Amelia on the 1901 census. Is this the guy you are looking for? He's in Cheshunt and that's in the Edmonton district. He's listed on 1881 too but the head of the household is David. From FreeBMD I can see his mother (Emma) married David when she was already pregnant with Frederick. Could be that David wasn't the father. Crista

Thank you all, the surname was definately Roles by his own spelling.I will check out the Frederick in Cheshunt but from the birth certificates i already have, his wife was Emily not Amelia although there could be an error taken at census time and the first daughter Selina should be there as well and possibly son George (unsure of dob!).Could this Frederick possibly be the same one born in Edmonton- as far as the family are aware,his wife Emily once she moved to the Rhondda as a child,never left.The puzzle continues-especially as I cannot seem to find the 1880 Somerset Frederick Roles in the 1901 census!Thanks to all, it has given me some more to go on.

Sinead, When did they get married and what was the wife's last name? Crista

He married Emily Barber(1877 birth) in November 1898 in St. Andrews's Church of Wales, Tonypandy (Rhondda Valleys)

Sinead, Do you know where Frederick is from? I understood from your initial message that it was Edmonton. There's a Selina born in Dec 1901 in PontyPridd, where the marriage was. Crista

Sinead, I think it's the Frederick from Somerset. Here's why. In 1901, Frederick from Edmonton is married to Amelia and lives in Cheshunt so I don't think he's the one. The case for Somerset Fred: 1) Somerset Fred has a father called Fred (1881 census). 2) I can't find Somerset Fred on the 1901 census but 3 of his brothers - Herbert, Albert and Thomas - are all living in Ystradyfodwg. This parish is in Rhondda. I think all the brothers moved there looking for work. 3)Fred's first daughter is named Selina and this was also the name of his mother. She was born in Pontypridd in Dec 1901. Rhondda is in the Pontypridd district. If people were under 21 when they married they often lied about their ages so they didn't need parental consent, This may have been the case with Frederick and Emily. Crista

Thanks, yes that was the conclusion I came to especially as Frederick had sons George and Joseph Herbert and daughter Sarah Ellen!Can't seem to find him on the 1881 census but going by both siblings and fathers names I think Somerset is more likely.Thank you

Sinead, Here's Frederick in 1881: Frederic ROLES Head M Male 35 Stapleton, Somerset, England Farm Labourer Selina ROLES Wife M Female 37 Stapleton, Somerset, England Glover Ellen ROLES Daur U Female 11 Milton, Somerset, England Glover George ROLES Son U Male 9 Stapleton, Somerset, England Scholar Thomas ROLES Son U Male 7 Ash, Somerset, England Scholar Albert ROLES Son U Male 5 Milton, Somerset, England Scholar Herbert ROLES Son U Male 4 Milton, Somerset, England Scholar Ella ROLES Daur U Female 3 Witcombe, Somerset, England Frederic ROLES Son U Male 1 Coat, Somerset, England Crista

Thanks Crista- certainly seems to be the same family-will try and check 1891 census also.Thanks