Genealogy Chat

in my pilgrim family i have a Martha Barnes listed on 1901 census as daughter but i have never seen any trace of her in any of the earlier census so who is she?

Name: Martha Barnes
[Martha Pilgrim]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Messingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: East Rudham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Docking
Sub-registration district: Burnham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 121
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Barnes 23
Eliza Pilgrim 39
Emily Pilgrim 1
John Pilgrim 50
Rose Pilgrim 4
Ruben Pilgrim 23
William Pilgrim 8

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Well, I suppose she could just about be the daughter of Eliza by a previous marriage or illegitimate - but you say Eliza has been with the family in previous census?

just checked back and on 1891 there is a barnes family including a martha on same page.

I know that martha is def not Mabel as she is away in service

1881: Right name, age and place of birth

Name: Martha Ann Barnes
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Little Massingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Little Massingham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address: Field Barn
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Freebridge Lynn
Sub-registration district: Hillington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Barnes 16
Hannah Barnes 56
John Barnes 57
Martha Ann Barnes 3
Thomas Barnes 20

1891: Grandparents have now become parents! Wheres the real mother???? Not Eliza?

Name: Martha A Barnes
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: Little Massingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Little Massingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Little Massingham
Town: Little Massingham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Freebridge Lynn
Sub-registration district: Hillington
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eleanor Barnes 3
Elisa Barnes 29
George Barnes 27
Hannah Barnes 67
John Barnes 67
Martha A Barnes 13
Thomas Barnes 33

think Eliza is Johns second wife and martha is her younger sister, making her a barnes not a pilgrim

ame: Martha A Barnes
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: Little Massingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Little Massingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Little Massingham
Town: Little Massingham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Freebridge Lynn
Sub-registration district: Hillington
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Eleanor Barnes 3
Elisa Barnes 29
George Barnes 27
Hannah Barnes 67
John Barnes 67
Martha A Barnes 13
Thomas Barnes

Ah but Martha is shown as my other post above as a grandchild in 1881 and no mum about - I think its much more likely Eliza is her mum and she is illegitimate - is Eliza with the Pilgrim family earlier?
And with all the good will in the world, I dont think John and his wife could have a baby at their ages! Ive got to shoot - on the census image what is Elisa/Eliza recorded as - no chance she is a daughter in law I spose and not the other Eliza 10 years earlier?

And looky here - 1871 - the Barnes family have a daughter called Eliza who is missing on the 1881:

nes
Name: Hannah Barnes
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Great Massingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Little Massingham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Freebridge Lynn
Sub-registration district: Hillington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Barnes 9
George Barnes 7
Hannah Barnes 47
John Barnes 47
Robert Barnes 10
Thomas Barnes 13

oh this is all so confusing i just want to know if she is a pilgirm or not before i send the pilgrim bit of my tree of to a true pilgrim decendant

Right to recap what i know John marrried mary ann Taylor 1879 martha and ruben children of above. Mary Ann dies 1890 John is alone with kids on 1891 census. Sept 1892 John marries Eliza Barnes William and Rose children of this union. Still dont know who Martha is and is she Eliza younger sister or some illegitimate child passed of a sibling.

Well, looks to me (and Ive not got me glasses on here) that Martha, born Massingham is the daughter of Eliza Barnes and was firstly shown as grandchild of the Barnes couple and then daughter. As they are almost 60 when she was born, I think we can safely say she was their illegitmate grandaughter and not a Pilgrim.

If necessary, you could buy her birth cert?

BTW, I have Norfolk Pilgrims in my line :)

mine all come form the massingham area i have only just started on this family so only have what i have found n census etc but if you think may have any matches pm me and happy to tell you what i got so far.