Genealogy Chat

There is a marriage in Leicester for a Walter James Mann in 1899. This could be the same Walter, or it could be your Walter's father perhaps, or it could be no relation at all:-

Marriage:-

Walter J. Mann to either Ada Rutter, OR Eliza Ann Sharpe (probably Ada Rutter going by the 1901 census)
Sept. qtr. 1899, Leicester, 7a, 511.

On the 1901 census, Walter J. Mann and wife Ada had an 8 month old son called Ernest T. Mann.

Kath. x

Thanks again Kath, that all makes perfect sense and ties in with my mum telling me that Len was her step-brother - I had thought she meant he had a different father, but now realise that SHE did.
I think my gran Annie got married to Herbert Kilby in 1909 had X children - he must have then died, probably in the war (?) and my gran met Walter Mann, had my mother , Irene in 1922 ( and any other children?), then got married to Walter in 1927 & re-registered my mums birth in 1934. Do we know anything about Walter? Did he & Annie have any other children? When did he die? Had HE been married before? Did Herbert die during the war? Did he & Annie have any other children?

Found this on Genuki about re-registration of births:-

When a child's birth is re-registered, the original entry becomes closed. The information may be the same but when re-registered after marriage the 'illegitimate' child becomes legitimate (ie. a child of the marriage, even if it is years later, as long as the original father was the man the mother marries). You wouldn't normally be told it was a re-registration. You might pick this up by the information on the certificate by the registrar's signature and date on the new certificate, but most people wouldn't notice this subtle anomally and not realise the birth had been re-registered.

Kath. x

Mother's maiden name was not added to the birth indexes until the Sept. qtr. of 1911. Since the two first names of the child whose birth I found are the same as Annie Fowkes's husband, I'd say it was more than likely their child. If you ordered the birth certificate you could give Annie Fowkes as the mother's maiden name as a reference checking point and then they would only issue the certificate if that was the mother's maiden name.

Kath. x

I've checked the birth index and your mum was registered at the time of her birth in 1922 as both Irene E. Kilby and Irene E. Mann, so her parent's weren't married at the time. She was then re-registered in 1934 again as Irene E Mann - presumably after the illegitimacy law's changed. I'm not sure of the details, but I think in about 1927 the law was changed so that a child could be legitimised after the parents married.

Kath. x

Kath
You're a star!
Many thanks for Lens marriage to Joan Boyce -
Dec 1934.
Also (probably co-incidently) this 1934 date ties in with My gran Annie Kilby1909 marriage/ Mann1927 marriage (nee Fowkes) also Lens mum
re-registering my mums birth (Irene Kilby 1922) & changing the name on the registration to Kilby to Mann. I am reluctant to add the 1910 birth of Herbert to my family tree as there is no evidence of the mothers maiden name ( I do agree with you though that it is very likely to be Annie & Herberts son) why no mothers name & how can I be sure????

Found this birth (although no mother's maiden name given at this time I'd say it was a likely son of Herbert and Annie):-

Herbert Frank Kilby
June qtr. 1910, Leicester, 7a, 221.

Kath. x

There are two Herbert Kilby death's in the first world war on the Commonwealth War Graves site, but they don't give any details for either of them.

Kath. x

Have found this marriage for Leonard:-

Leonard Kilby to Joan M. Boyce
Dec. qtr. 1934, Leicester, 7a, 725 (or 723)

Kath. x

Thanks Margaret - I have since found out even more....
Annie Kilby (nee Fowkes) married Herbert Kilby in Dec 1909 & ALSO married Walter J.Mann 2nd qtr 1927.
What happened to Herbert Kilby her 1st husband? - Anyone know please?
How many children did Annie & Herbert have & who were they & how many children did Annie & Walter have & who were they????
Was my mum (Irene Kilby born July 1922 -then re-registered in 1934 as Irene Mann) adopted by Walter Mann? Who is Walter Manns Family?
A mystery!!!!!?????

Free BMD has a Leonard Kilby born Dec. quarter 1911, Leicester. Mother's name is Fowkes. (7a 411).
AND
Annie Fowkes married Herbert Frank Kilby Dec, quarter 1909, Leicester. (7a 587)
Margaret
Good brainwave you had!

Hi
Thanks to everyone for helping!
I had this real brainwave last night and remembered the name Kilby. I know that this was Len's surname!!!!!
So I am now actually looking for a Len (Leonard)? Kilby ....not Fowkes or Mann (sorry).from Leicester. I have a feeling that his wife or partner may have been Joan and Feel sure he had a son/s pos John or David???
Can anyone help please????

There are 6 deaths registered for Leonard Fowkes after 1984 but none of them in Leicestershire.

Kath. x

The only death for a Leonard Mann in Leicestershire after 1984 is this one, but he's too young to be the one you are looking for:-

Name: Leonard Albert L Mann
Birth Date: 21 Mar 1949
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1986
Age at death (estimated): 37
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1701

Kath. x

I have spent all day, without stopping looking for Len - Leonard (?) I am not sure if he was Mann / Fowkes or ? His mum was Annie Mann nee Fowkes. I believe that he would have been born between 1910 - 1925 in Leicester. It is possible that his wife/partner was called Joan (?) and he had a son/sons.No idea when he died, but we last saw him in the mid 1980's. Can anyone find him please?

Yep
Irene Evelyn Mann - I spotted that entry - hand wriiten at the bottom of the page of entries.
Finding Leonard would be a great help as I dont know of anyone elses name in the family to look up. I know that hew was married at somepoint as he had a son/sons and given that all the family are in Leicester it is likely that this is where he got married. I also have a vague recollection of the village of Syston being involved - perhaps a brother or sister of my mums moved their at some point?

I haven't been able to find Leonard's birth yet, but was your mum Irene E Mann?

If so she was re-registered in the Dec. qtr. of 1934 for some reason.

Kath. x

I have thought overnight about my mums brother/stepbrother - my uncle Len.
His name would be Leonard and either Fowkes or Mann (probably Mann)? I believe that he was older than my mum who was born 13.07.22. and he definately lived in leicester all his life! Can anyone find him for me. Ps I am looking -honestly, but not having much sucess.Thanks. Gill

Gillian, go to the homepage on Ancestry.
Click on "England & Wales BMD Indexes" (It's in the right hand column under More Collections.
Next screen, click on Deaths in the first section which covers 1837-1983.
Next screen type in name, year and quarter.
She's there, honestly!
Marg

Gillian,

Are you checking the complete death index and not just the partially transcribed one? The death is definitely there under Annie Mann in the last qtr. of 1971, Leicester 3a, 1366

Are you using Ancestry for your searches?

Kath. x