Genealogy Chat

My uncle was born in 1896, served in WW1, and was both gassed and shot (a bullet through his jaw)..

He was STILL eligible to be called up in WW2 until he got a job in a factory doing restricted occupation work. My calculations make him about 43 in 1939.


A cousin's husband was taken down to the Recruiting Office in October 1939 by his father, and made to join up even though he was only 16. His mother was absolutely furious, and tried to get it overturned but could not because the father had signed the forms!


So there are/were exceptions at both ends of the "official" ages.



sylvia

My dad was in reserve occupation in WW2 he was 32 when war broke out but had worked for the Woolwich Arsenal from when he left school at 14. on my birth cert of 1937 he was a Shell turner.

he tried to enlist for all 3 services cos my mums bro ..who incidentally was a dry land sailor . ie never left Portsmouth!!. used to make disparaging remarks about him not joining up ,as if he didn't have the bottle for it.

Each time he was rejected because he was needed at home for the war effort he compromised by joining the home guard and our house was an ARP post. Mum too did her bit and took a St Johns Ambulance brigade first course and used to go on bomb watch too so as to report where bombs dropped to direct the rescue services . she attended too to help out with first aid where she could.

We had the ARP post board on the wall beside our front door up the the early 1950,s when dad finally took it down.

Shirley

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/conscription.htm
In October 1939 the British government announced that all men aged between 18 and 41 who were not working in 'reserved occupations' could be called to join the armed services if required. Conscription was by age and in October 1939 men aged between 20 and 23 were required to register to serve in one of the armed forces. They were allowed to choose between the army, the navy and the airforce
As the war continued men from the other registered age groups received their 'call-up' papers requiring them to serve in the armed forces. In 1941 single women aged between 20 and 30 were also conscripted. Women did not take part in the fighting but were required to take up work in reserved occupations - especially factories and farming - to enable men to be drafted into the services.
I know that some young guys lied about their age and, particularly in the later war years, were accepted. Some of the women were 'actively' involved as I know of two at least who were flying aircraft from the factory to the air fields. There were also women who were involved actively with the anti aircraft units. Most women, particularly those wih families,who were not actually in the forces,were 'on munitions' - making the equipement for use by the forces or, like myself, in the Land Army. Women who joined the WRNS (Navy), WRAAC (Army) or WAAF(Air Force), however, did jobs that released the men for more 'active' service but many were in the same dangerous situations as the men as military targets were bombed buy the Germans. Bombs are not discriminating as to sex.
As for the Belson part - he could have been one of those who - like some Channel Islanders who were not born in the Islands - sent there when the Germans occupied the Islands and sent to concentration camps in Europe.
Sorry - deleted- posted twice

Hi Helen,

I think that description makes it unmistakable that he was in there as a prisoner and not a part of the liberation forces.

So you could modify what you ask your Aunt and see if you can establish how he came to be imprisoned to begin with. The 'back-story', so to speak.

Was he among the soldiers left behind at Dunkirk, perhaps?
(B.E.F. = British Expeditionary Force, if she makes reference to it).

Also, you need work out what context her memory is in. She recalls him on his return home but was she only a small child at the time? Can she remember happier pre-war memories?

Anything like bananas or sweets, but before the early 50's, for instance?



M

Thanks again Mark and Janet.

I feel rather over-whelmed by all the info - I need some time to digest it.

I think I'll go back and query with my aunt (I don't really know her well - but will bite the bullet!)

All I remember her saying is Belsen - and that when he came home, he was dangerously thin and sat on the chair with just a towel draped over his legs. It was too uncomfortable for him to wear any clothing.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Cheers
Helen x

Upper age limit for war service could vary according to whether or not person was already in one of the services. My father was 39 when the 2 W War started, but he was already in the navy since 1919, and he was not released in 1941, after 22 years but had to remain in the Navy on active service until the war ended in 1945. This was mainly because they would not let their most experienced men go at the start of a War. This happened to thousands of men and many could certainly have been in their early fifties by the end of the war in 1945, but sixty two/three seems a little doubtful, so I doubt that the person born in 1882 would have been in Belsen whilst in one of the British Services, but he may have been in Belsen as somebody captured by the Germans for other reasons. Was he Jewish or even in some Intelligence Corps or any other possible reason for his incarceration? There were all sorts of nationalities there when it became a Concentration Camp though it was a prisoner of war cam-p for a short part of the war until about 1942 so could he have been captured during the early part of the war and made a prisoner of war then although in 1942 he would have been 60 so?

Lower age limit was 18 callup for all young men whether at school or not, but many were as young as 16 or possibly even 14 if looked old enough as like many other wars before, they lied about their age so they could fight for their country.

Age at leaving school was 14 during the 2 W War..

1936 Leaving age to rise to 15 in 1939 but not implemented due to outbreak of war.

1944 Education Act to raise to 15 and then 16 as soon as possible.

1947 Raised to 15

1959 Report to raise to 16

1963 Another Report

1964 preparations for change

1968 change postponed

1971 Leaving age to go to age 16 from Sept 1972

1997 All children to remain in Education until the last day in June of the year they are 16 So it took a long long time to eventually get there!

Janet North London Borders

Hi Helen,

age 62/63? (late 1944 or early 45 when the camps were discovered, as the front moved forward)

How do these sound (compared to his pre-war career)?

Quartermaster
Logistics
Admin
Driver
Cook
Telegrapher
Radio Operator
Doctor
Press Officer
Photographer
Cinematographer

Plenty of JD's available where age was immaterial.

Is Aunt still in a position to clarify what she said?(My suggestion is without wishing to stir any unpleasant side to the memories by expecting her to go into details, or anything).

For instance: -

"at the [liberation of] the camp" - was that what she actually meant?

"at the camp" as against "in the camp" (ie incarceratd in it, until liberated).

Small word, big difference. I try to confine my pedantic streak to this sort of occasion.


I suppose what you really want to know is whether it is worth spending your time on an enquiry at the MilService records places on what may be a wild-goose chase?

My point of view is that you'll never set it straight unless you give it a try. I'm sure they won't mind handling the query and if Aunt turns out to be right then you'll have added to your family's story and, what's more, you'll have it in writing.


Mark

Thanks to Alison and Mark for your replies.

I wondered this question for a while. Particularly the upper age. My Aunt told me a while ago that my great grandfather was at the Bergen-Belson camp in WW2.

I can't see this being true as he was born in 1882.

Any ideas/comments on this would be appreciated.

Cheers
Helen x

Hi Helen,

I think school-leaving age was up to 16 by then but play safe and think 15. Not so much of that lying about their age (to get in) going on as there was in the first war (a time when a well-nourished 14 yr old could easily pass for an older teenager with stunted growth).

EDIT: Alison beat me to it! Your exception proves my 'rule', shall we say. :-D
I was trying to imply that the requirement to attend school would have made it trickier to get away with it than in the previous generation).

Upper age limit is tricky.

Google for "Home guard" and see if it refers to things like "they would take men from age 35 upwards" (35=my guess)

But the armed forces may have accepted any age, subject to the person passing as medically fit.
(e.g. a navigator in an aircraft needs to be efficient at his job, not physically strong whilst a bomber pilot did need brute strength and endurance).

Also google "reserved occupation(s)" - men who weren't allowed to sign up because their skills were needed for the factories/shipyards and generally contributing to the war effort. For many, this was as much of a 'guilt trip' as it was their salvation so, if asked "what did you do in the war, daddy?" there could have been as much "I don't want to talk about it" as there was for servicemen.

So my ballpark figure is 15-35 but if you have the remotest clue what they did, consider the possbility of over-age personnel being allowed.


Did you want only the men though?
You specifically said "_called up_" and "to fight", which excludes the women as they were all volunteers and non-combatants.



Mark

All i know is that my grandad lied about his age to sign up and he would have been 15 in 1939 therefore i assume it was 16 to volunteer

i hope this is of some help

Hi,

Does anyone know what age one had to be to get called up to fight in WW2? I'm looking for both the lower and upper age limit please.

I've tried googling but can't seem to find the answer.

Cheers
Helen x