Genealogy Chat

Can anyone tell me if the record index numbers are for indiiduals or are they seperate?
I am trying to work out if in 1904 Elizabeth Gribble aged 32 in Pontypridd ref 11a page 290 is connected with Mary Ellen aged 6 in Pontypridd ref 11a 290 also, as well as Leonard aged 0 in Ponty but his ref is 11 a 292 my tree is getting way too confusing i think im on the right branch then it snaps and im back to square one!
thanks in advance to those who can help

Hi Amanda

As I understand it, the index entries refer only to volume (in this case volume 11a) and page number (this one, page 290)of the given quarter.

The entries would have been written chronologically as received. The page numbers in the birth registers are independent of marriages and both are separate from death.

So, a birth on page 290 of volume 11a (births), has no relationship to a death on page 290 of volume 11a (deaths).

The only conclusions that might be drawn from the same reference numbers would be:

births, two with same surname (and after 1911 mothers maiden name) could be twins.

deaths on the same page, may have occurred at the same time, such as a mother and infant.

marriages, bride and groom have same vol and page number (and district name)

Di

Amanda

11a is the volume number, and is usually the same no matter what year for any particular registration district.

290 is the page number and can differe from year to year.


Thus if you have two people with the same surname with the same volume and page number then it is a possibility that they are related.

However, if it is a common surname, then it becomes much more tricky!!


sylvia

Di has asid what I omitted to say ......... bmd events are in different volumes, with the same volume number being used for a particular registration district, but the page numbers for the different events have no connection with each other!


sylvia

I presume this is what you are looking at??


Births Sep 1904 (>99%)

Gribble Leonard Pontypridd 11a 599

-------------------
Deaths Sep 1904 (>99%)

GRIBBLE Elizabeth 32 Pontypridd 11a 290
GRIBBLE Leonard 0 Pontypridd 11a 292
GRIBBLE Mary Ellen 6 Pontypridd 11a 290

-------------------
Marriages Dec 1904 (>99%)

Gribble George Pontypridd 11a 967



Poor Leonard ...... looks he only survived a short time!


sylvia

The 1901 Wales census may answer your question


Name: Elizabeth N Gribble
Age in 1901: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Pontypridd
Ecclesiastical parish: Glyntaff St Mary
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Llantrisant
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 48
Household Members: Name Age
Allen Gribble 2 months
David Gribble 1
Elizabeth N Gribble 28
George Gribble 28
Mary E Gribble 4


- - - - -

Looks like Elizabeth, Mary and the new baby Leonard all died, and then George married again only 2 or 3 months later!!


sylvia

Of course, you would need the actual certificates to be absolutely sure.



sylvia

Thanks everyone for all of that! my computer broke down for a bit back on now (unsure how long)
Thats exactly what i was looking at and that census is the one im lookingat also see im so bloody confused with this tree as my grandfather swears black and blue that his Grandmother Mary Elizabeth Thomas (married George Gribble) died giving birth to Mary Elizabeth Gribble in 1894 the think is it cant be as there is no corrorsponding death forthe quarter the baby was born!
also Mary Eliz. was meant to be an only child - thats where the confusion comes in with that census!
In the census it has Mary E whci could posssibly be the 6 yr old Mary Ellen! arghhh i dont know im so lost im gonna have to go get some certs waiting for my first lot to arrive then i can order more.
I though as Elizabeth and Leonard had same page numbers that they died together, this is by far the most confusing hobby i ever decided to do
thanks again for your help

and just to add to your bit Sylvia - the George im looking for did remarry shortly after the death of his first wife to Annie Spry however this record i can only find in 1904 not around the birth of his child!
Unless the family has completly lied about this factor who knows Gramps was too young and the family didnt speak to each other

Is this george's first marriage?

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Davies Margaret Pontypridd 11a 675
Davies Thomas Pontypridd 11a 675
>>>>Gribble George Pontypridd 11a 675
>>>>Hedley Elizabeth Ada M Cardiff 11a 675
>>>>Thomas Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 675



Hmmmm that's interesting. There's either a man missing, or was Elizabeth married before??? There's usually only 4 names per entry at this period of time. The only time I've seen something like this is when they put both the maiden adn first married name fo the woman.


- - - -

and marriage No. 2:-

Marriages Dec 1904 (>99%)

Gribble George Pontypridd 11a 967
Spry Annie Pontypridd 11a 967



sylvia

Just had a thought (yes, painful!!!)


Did you check the quarter BEFORE Mary Elizabeth's birth registration??


You have 6 weeks to register a birth, but deaths are registered immediately. So if the baby was actually born in late December 1893, the father had until January to register her. In the kerfuffle of his wife dying ...............




sylvia