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I have stumbled across something a bit strange on my family tree. If I set out some of the info below, I wonder if you might tell me what you would make of it all - thanks!
NB - my query centres around Lydia/Eliza.
On the 1871 Census: 6 Durrant Place, Pepper St, St Saviour Southwark
Joseph Priestley 50 head
Maria Priestley 38 wife
Joseph 20, son
George 16, son
Clara 18, dau
Martha 14, dau
LYDIA 11, dau, b Bermondsey
(NB - Lydia does not appear on the 1861 Census with her family so I reckon her age may be slightly wrong on the 1871 census)
1881 Census: 12 Kings Bench Walk, St Saviour Southwark
Joseph 63, head
Maria 53, wife
Joseph 5, grandson
ELIZA 20, occ Boxmaker, b Bermondsey
James 28.
(Eliza and James do not have the box for relationship filled in on the census page - also their ages are a bit obscure but I think hers is 20). No sign of Lydia.
1891 Census:
12 Kings Bench Walk, Southwark
Joseph, Widower, 71
Lydia, dau, 29, paper box maker, b Snowfields
George, grandson, 7,
Rose, grandau, 9,
Joseph, grandson, 2,
William, grandson, 17
(NB - Snowfields is in Bermondsey)
Ok - so here comes the interesting bit. I was curious to find out who those 4 grandchildren belonged to so had sent for some of the birth certs. The one for "Rose" arrived (real name Rosetta) yesterday and it has baffled me somewhat.
8 Mar 1881, 12 Kings Bench Walk, Rosetta, girl, (Father's name and occupation left blank), Mother: ELIZABETH PRIESTLEY Box Maker of 12 Kings Bench Walk.
So, I know that Rosetta is Rose and she was born at the home of her grandfather, Joseph, and looks to be illegitimate - BUT who on earth is Elizabeth? Elizabeth must be "Eliza" from that census - but where is Rose on the 1881 Census, since she was born about a month prior to that census being taken.
At first I thought, ok, Eliza/Elizabeth could be the wife of that James Priestley, whoever he might be (I haven't found where he fits in that family yet, but I reckon a nephew perhaps) - but then surely he would have been named on Rosetta's cert if Eliza and James were a couple? Also, I know that James is not a son of Joseph as I have all his children and there is no James. So how is Rose a grandaughter to Joseph?
Also, I find it a bit of a coincidence that Lydia and Eliza have the same age, birthplace and occupation! My mind is telling me that perhaps Lydia used an alias name around the time Rosetta was born, due to her being an illegitimate birth (who knows how their minds worked back then? Or for some other reason).
I haven't been able to find a birth record for Lydia Priestley so have no idea if she had a middle name of Elizabeth or Eliza.
Sorry if I am confusing you all with this - I'm confused myself LOL
If anyone can make sense of it and has any thoughts I would be glad to hear them. If this was on your tree would you be inclined to think that Eliza/Lydia/Elizabeth were all the same person?
I have just sent off for Rosetta's marriage cert to see if that sheds any further light on the matter (hoping she might have known who her father was by then and named him!)
Thanks and regards - Athena
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Hi Athena
have you found them on the 1861 census?
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1881
Is it possible that James and Eliza were actually man and wife...right ages and therefore Lydia is nothing to do with Eliza. The child could be theirs???
Try looking for James in 1871
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I think it should be Elizabeth Priestly who went by the name of Lydia/Eliza. She was probably sent away to a distant relative to have baby rose - something which was often done to hide the discrace of an illegitamate baby to the family. This would explain why the baby is not on the census perhaps.
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Hi Dee
Thanks for reading through all that! Yes, that was my initial thought that James and Eliza were a couple - but then why would his name not be on Rosetta's birth cert if that's the case?
Seems a bit strange.
The only James I found that seems to fit his birthplace and age was in prison during the 1871 census, so not with any wife, unfortunately.
Thanks again - Athena
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Dee, re your 2nd message - not sure about that as we have a Lydia aged 11 on the 1871 census, so she was calling herself Lydia before Eliza/Elizabeth (if they are the same person).
Also, she wasn't sent away to have the baby because Rosetta was born in her family home in Kings Bench Walk, and Rosetta remained living with Lydia and her grandfather, Joseph until she married.
This family always end up putting my head in a spin - nothing is ever straightforward on this branch. Lydia's mother, Maria, changed her name to Susannah on the 1861 census - same birthplace (Camberwell) and age - and she was back to Maria again the following census!
Ah well - I guess it keeps the brain cells ticking over LOL
Athena
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If you can, look carefully at any original census document. If Eliza has a dot after it (Eliza.) then it is short for Elizabeth.
If not, then it is possible for there to be two children with such similar names in the same family. I've come across an Eliza and an Elizabeth as siblings before so don't discount the possibilty of that being the case.
People did sometimes alter their names. I've got a Maria/Charlotte in my family and I am still not 100% certain it's the same person. I've also seen examples of two sons by different fathers both called Thomas yet alive at the same time.
All very puzzling.
Good luck
Sue
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Yes people do strange things with names, my husband is called John, and so is his living brother called John and also his father is John. So when his mother called "John", three of them must have come running. Weird I think!
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Census takers can also make mistakes!!
I have an Agnes on the 1881 census, who becomes Avril in 1891. She is Amelia on the 1901 - but that's the name she used as soon as she could!
Her sister Madeline became Maboboline in 1891.
maggie
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