Genealogy Chat

does anyone know how to trace someone who might have been born in France please.

The only registers that are held in France are in the local Town Hall or the County (Departements) archives.

You say 'might have' and 'might have' will get you nowhere, you do need to know where the birth was registered and if in the past 100 years you will need to provide proof of your relationship.

For anyone looking at this thread -- Margaret posted the details in "trying to find" and her mystery is on its way to being solved:

http://genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=973506

It's quite a fascinating little tale, so far -- and she has promised to tell us who this

Euzajena Rosina Lenacharle Mabelle Carter Inniss

-- properly read (more or less) as

Gazajena Rosina Lena Charletta Belle Carter Inness

born 1856 in Manchester and not France at all, as she reported in a later census when she was Gaza Crawford in her supposed parents' household, or Gaza Evans after marriage (I forget when it was), actually was the daughter of.

She may not have been born in France, but she had one helluva name, and I'm dying to find out who she was!

And if I can just add my pennysworth - Kathryn worked her butt off finding that birth entry and I am well impressed - that took a lot of tenacious effort Kath - I may well ask you to search for some of mine - LOL

Gazajena Rosina Lena Charletta Belle Carter Inniss.Not a lot further i'm afraid.That's the name on birth cert.b.13 October 1856. no fathers name. however, on this cert mothers christian name of Ellen crossed through and name of Helen Inniss written .

On her marriage cert to Herbert Evans Gazajena's name appears asGazajena Inness Crawford, spinster. doesn't state any profession.States father as Charles Crawford (deceased) profession-gentleman.

Kathryn B kindly found an Ellen Louisa Carter Inness but i don't think this can be Gazajena's mother as the birth is 1858 in Middlesex. You would think that the name was as rare as hens teeth wouldn't you.she doesn't turn up in 1861 census with this family, however it does seem that an Ellen was her mother. I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

.thanks to all who have helped me in the past and hopefully the future.

Margaret

Wow - an intriguing and fascinating story! Sounds very interesting, and you all seem to have done a lot of work on it!

Good luck with the search and keep us updated - what an unusual name!

Hey, Margaret!

The idea with those other births was that they would be siblings, not parents. ;)


Name: John Charles Carter Inness
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Brighton
County: Sussex, East Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 225

Name: Ellen Louisa Carter Inness
Year of Registration: 1858
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Martin in The Fields
County: Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 295

and your:

Name: Euzajena Rosina Lenacharle Mabelle Carter Inniss
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Chorlton
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 499


Likely all three will have the same info -- mother but no father.

We found the Crawford household in that other thread -- I'd thought that Ellen, those children's mother, could have married Charles Crawford:


Marriages Sep 1861
Blackshaw Tom Edwin Congleton 8a 351
**Crawford Charles Congleton 8a 351
HANCOCK Sarah Congleton 8a 351
**Parker Ellen Congleton 8a 351


(There was a John C Parker in the Crawford household in 1861 who was pretty clearly the John Charles Carter Inness in that birth record. This is a very twisty plot.)

But Helen Inniss, hmm. Should look for her in censuses, I guess. I have to work right now though!

Ellen may have been putting on airs and calling herself Helen on that birth certificate. And it still seems highly likely that the children's father was Carter, as giving the father's surname as a middle name, particulalry as consistently as that, was common practice.

Perhaps one of them -- Mr. Carter and Ms. Inness (her own name or her husband's name?) -- had an existing marriage and so they were unable to marry when they had the children.

Something just came into my head, Margaret ...

If you read here:

http://genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=954394

you'll see one little bit of my Hill/Monck saga -- my gr-grfather's sister Emma Hill who married John Cheshire. Or not. But I had finally identified her in the later household with him and their children, because of her birth details and his occupation: 1843, Jersey, and copper agent like her father, and her sister's husband's uncle was the big cheese in the copper trade in Wales at the time.

So after all my searching and leaving breadcrumbs around the censuses at Ancestry, somebody found one of them -- a grx2 granddaughter of Emma.

She had never heard of Emma's name being Hill. She always heard the story that she was a Montmorency and was born in ............... France.

You know what I think? I think "born in France" is code for "illegitimate"! Born in Jersey may just have been a variation on the theme. ;)

Margaret -- this has shifted over from your original thread, which is a little awkward, but I'll put this here since it's current.

This is the household I found in 1861:


Name: Ellen Crawford
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Gateshead, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: St Peter
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 42

Charles Crawford 39
Ellen Crawford 23
Gazajena Crawford 4
John C Crawford 1 (This is John Charles Carter Inness)
Margaret Ramsay 19


and in the old thread, Pete had found this "interesting household" in 1851, but it was sister Margaret's details he reproduced; this is Ellen:


Name: Ellen Inness
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Gatshead, Durham, England

Civil Parish: Westgate
Town: Newcastle
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Westgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 3i
Household schedule number: 20

Ellen Inness 14
John Inness 46
Margaret A Inness 10


That's "Helen Inniss" (I still think it probably says Inness on the birth cert, no?), mother of Gazajena.

Identical personal info in the two years -- age, place of birth -- all the right names (Gazajena married as Crawford).


So ... how come Ellen married Charles Crawford as Parker??

Marriages Sep 1861
Blackshaw Tom Edwin Congleton 8a 351
**Crawford Charles Congleton 8a 351
HANCOCK Sarah Congleton 8a 351
**Parker Ellen Congleton 8a 351


This looks like the family in 1841:


Name: John Inness
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: Alnwick
Hundred: Coquetdale (East Division)
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Registration district: Alnwick
Sub-registration district: Alnwick

Elizabeth Inness 3
John Inness 25
John Inness 2 weeks
Margaret Inness 25


-- if Ellen was baptized Elizabeth. In which case this would look like her birth -- Inness mistranscribed because someone wasn't taught how to read old-style "ss":


Births Jun 1838
INNEFS Elizabeth
Alnwick (Northumberland)
25 185


But there's no remotely likely marriage to a Parker ... and no remotely similar marriage to a Crawford.

I just got a little obsessed with this one ...

Hello everyone,
the search goes on. Gazajena Rosina Lena Charletta Belle Carter Inness was born1856 in sub distict of Chorlton,Manchester (vol8c page499)

mother Ellen Inness was born in Gateshead, so the question remains how and why did she have a name like that.

Gazajena went on to marry Herbert evans(24 March1878 )and lived in Brighton.her marriage cert states that her father was Charles Crawford a gentleman (deceased).

I think Charles and Ellen Inness did not marry, they had 3 children. Ellen went on to have 4 more children by i think a Mr Adam, she didn't marry him either. She did marry George Francis Dear, stating she was a spinster.
there is no further mention of Gazajena on 1891 or 1901 census.Her daughter Violet Alexandra was born in 1882 7th of june. Violet,aged 8, is living with her aunt Amy Sinden in brighton on1891 census .No sign of Violet on 1901 census but she pops up again in 1902 when she marries Charles Richardson she's already with child.

so what happened in those intervening years? Did they go to france? the family story goes that Violet could speak fluent french and she ran way from Paris. Family story also says that Violet was educated in The Notre Dame de Paris school.I don't know how to find out. Any ideas people?

Kathryn's been at it again on my behalf, brilliant girl.

It appears that Gazenjena had plenty of half brothers and sister's, one on which, Harold Crawford, with wife and children, upped stickes from Brighton and went to live in London . They appear in 1901 census working in a laundry with, wait for it French citizens, Clemence Loutreuil and Auguste Letessier, i think if memory servesLetessier and Lefoly are the same family. have contacted via Genes aLetessier to no avail.
Really don't know where to go next, unless you wonderful people know better. Particular thanks to Kathryn who's been brilliant.

http(://)www(.)genealogia(.)com(/)

http(://)www(.)geneanet(.)org(/)

Both very goof for French connections, we have found quite a few of ours on there.

remove the ( )

Debbie