Genealogy Chat

I'm sure that this topic has been covered before, but I've not been able to find an old thread that can answer my question.

I've been really curious about when surnames were adopted. I've googled and found little bits and pieces but nothing specific. For example, serfs were often known by their forenames followed by the name of their lord. And in other circumstances, they were known as "John, son of Robert" which was later changed to Robertson. Also, they were known by their occupation; John Carpenter, John Blacksmith/Smith, John Shepherd.

If you have some info that you could add to this thread, I'd be most appreciative. I'd love to know the history of the surname.

I'd also like to find out why some surnames became extinct and if it was due to something like plague or the likes.



Deb:)

People were also sometimes known by the name of the place they were from. For example if there were 5 Johns living in a village in Scotland or somewhere and one of the John's was originally from Preston, he would be known as John Preston to differentiate him from the others..

Sam x

Yes it is intersting most of mine were occupational names like Cook and Smith but some were more unusual like Laycock and Constantine.
what was the name of that village totally wiped out de to the plague? i think it was somewhere in or near wales.

I've discovered that my maiden name actually means "Thief"............................lovely!!!.......................one of my really old rellies must have been very underhanded to have become known by that surname......................lol




Deb:)

Thanks Colin. That's the bit of info I was missing...........................Poll Tax!!!

Off to have a look now.



Deb:)

These sites might interest you.

http://surnames.behindthename.com/

http://genealogy.about.com/od/surnames/

http://www.intl-research.com/surname.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/get_started/surnames_01.shtml

Beware of sites which offer to sell you coats of arms and tell you the meaning of your surname. They can often be inaccurate and tend to assume that everyone with a name shared the same ancestry. This may be so of some names but there were others with multiple origins plus some servants of nobility used their landowners' names and weren't actually part of the family.

There are some good books on surname meanings you could look at in a library. The Oxford Dictionary of English Surname Meanings is one of the best though there are other books disputing some of the origins of some names.

It's fun to find out surname distributions.

http://www.ancestry.com/facts/-family-history-uk.ashx
If you type in a name on this site it will show where individuals were on the 1891 census. If they are very clustered around one area (ignoring probably a London group as there is often another lot there due to economic migration) this can show whether it is likely to be a one source name. The higher the percentage in any one area the more likely that it is where the name originated.

Best wishes
Sue
x

Sharm - I noticed you mentioned Laycock. I have Mococks in my tree and when researching this name I've come across Mocock as a derivation of Maycock. Names such as Maycock and Laycock came from pet names - Laycock from Luke and Maycock from Mark. This was from a book I read about surnames that somebody had researched in Northern England - or at least somewhere up past the Midlands !! (How do you know I'm a southerner?)


I wonder sometimes about my Norfolk ancestors - names like Forder and Read/Reed - make me think of rivers and splashy places!

Jill

Cock could possibly have derived from Cockerel; as in Cockerel keeper.................................I'm only guessing though. From the websites that Sue posted, it seems that the majority of names today came from occupations.





Deb:)

I spent eight years living in Newfoundland (and married a Newfoundlander), where the local dialect is a combination of 17th - 19th century West Country (esp. Devon and Dorset) and 19th century Irish (esp. Cos. Waterford and Wexford).

In Newfoundland - or at least in St. John's - "cock" or "cocky" is commonly used as a general term of address to men, as are "my son" (usu. from another man) or "my love" (always from a woman). "Me old trout" is another version which can be used in the same way, while "skipper" is applied to older men (e.g., over 60) whether or not they ever worked on a boat.

Thus, an encounter between two friends meeting on the street might go something like this:

Buddy: "Hey there cocky, how's she goin' bye?"
Udder Fella: "Number one, me son, number one."

or in a corner store (often labelled "Groc. and Conf." and invariably selling cold beer and cigarettes):

Cashier: "Now den, skipper, will that be your usual baccy [tobacco]?"
Old Man:"Yes, thank 'ee."
Cashier: "Yes, my love, what do ye want?"
Woman: "Dis case [12 bottles] of Blue Star [a local beer] an' a pack of Rot'mans [cigarettes]."
Cashier: "Right, me little [the 't' barely pronounced] trout, 'ow can I 'elp you?"
Boy: "Missiz, I needs a pack of Players [cigarettes] for me mudder."
Cashier: "I can't sell you more than t'ree loose cigarettes unless I gots a note from 'er."

I have no difficulty imagining a Newfoundlander being called "Johhnycock" or "Jimmycock" to his family and friends, as a term of affection. So I'd expect Laycock and Maycock developed in the same way.

Come to think of it, didn't Bet Lynch often call male customers "cock" when she worked at the Rovers on Coronation Street?

Time to go to bed -

Tim
Ottawa, Canada

Surnames were more or less restricted to the nobility until the 9/10th century, when it became useful to refer to someone by the trade they followed - Taylor, Fletcher (arrow maker) etc, or by where they lived - Bowcott (occupier of a cottage by the stream). Surnames gradually filtered down to us peasants during the Norman era, and as Colin mentioned yesterday, became more or less obligatory during the time of Richard II - for taxation purposes, what else?
To grossly over simplify things, the majority of surnames fall into one of 4 categories:
1. trade or profession - Cooper, Taylor, etc
2. place of residence - Wetherby (Weatherby) living by a sheep enclosure, Eccleston(e) renting or occupying Church land
3. place of origin (often in France) - Swinnerton, from Swynerton in France
4. nickname - White, fair hair or skin, Shorthouse - do you really need an explanation?

My aunt - who was a Mocock - was convinced that it was of French origin - Moceaux or some such ... but I don't think it is, so the Lecoq one that Libby9 mentions makes me wonder. Although Le coq has much more of a French sound to it than Mo cock.

When I was younger I did wonder what sort of ribbing my grandfather would have had - he was Arthur Mocock. Bless him.

I love that "conversation" Tim. Fabulous.

I've just been reading on google books that the clergy often deliberately changed a person's surname when recording in parish records. Sometimes it was done to change an unknown name into a more familiar one, eg Pitchford to Pitchfork.

But sometimes the clergy were having a little joke at the expense of the illiterate peasant. One child from the 1650's was baptised as Daniel Cockroger and buried a few months later as Daniel Cockrobin.

I'm wondering if this sort of thing would have caused the extinction of some surnames rather than my first thought..........................plague.




Deb:)

Surnames have a tendency to die out anyway. Populations isolated as small communities in mountainous areas or on small islands end up sharing a very few surnames.

There are mathematical reasons for this for those of you who fancy a bit of mindstretching!

http://homepages.newnet.co.uk/dance/webpjd/intro/big.htm#Surname%20extinction

Slightly off at a tangent this article mentions surname extinction at the end and makes interesting reading.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s37385.htm

All fascinating stuff.

Sue
x

Oh wow. I think I've found an extinct name!

The last known record that I've been able to find for the surname Saunton is the following.


From marriages:


Name: Ellen Saunton
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Oundle
County: Huntingdonshire, Northamptonshire




I've trawled births from this date up to the late 1930's and not one birth under this surname. It looks like Ellen was the very last of this surname.................how sad.





Deb:)





Or maybe not.........................I've just found one Saunton in phone listings in Northampton. It's weird that there's absolutely no births after 1905 though.