General Chat

When I was a child I was told that "god" watched everything, and if I did something wrong he would write it in his "big black book", so that when I died he would look in the book to see what sort of person I was. I had nightmares about standing in front of a big bearded man reading the book and shouting at me, surrounded by a crowd of people, all shouting.

Terrible thing to teach a child.

I grew up thinking "if you have too good a time "God" will get you back"

It is what I was taught at school Cynthia, it is what is often said when someone dies, it is what I have heard people say when something bad happens. I have taken it they mean iis what God wants to happen.

Disgraceful that anyone could even think of punishing and making an example of Muffy's little girl for what she said. Shows what intolerance and intimidation can lurk in our schools or what fear there is of upsetting those with a different view even at that young age.

But there is an answer to the whys. It is only when you try to explain them in the light of a religion that they become unfathomable.They are all perfectly explainable.

There is no need to complicate them.

Eldrick , my reply there was not to yours, I posted without having seen yours first :-)

My faith such as it is, was very shaken by my mother's death, I could not, and still can not see a reason why someone who was kind and loving should suffer and die 'too soon'. Prayer did not work, at least not in bringing a miraculous cure, in the aftermath I could not believe in a God and if I tried his 'cruelty' seemed to outweigh any benefit.

I certainly can't tell someone why they should have faith, or give an answer to all the other 'whys' like why war, why death , why disease, why ..... I can't even tell you why I have a little faith still ...maybe it is a fools treasure but wiser men still don't have an answer whether it is a religious or scientific one.

I dont get my facts from the freethinker. I think for myself. I subscribe to it because i believe in free speech and i am an atheist. I also use the JREF and RDFRS. And others.

The thing with believers is that they can never ever explain their beliefs in a manner that is coherent to anyone other than another believer. Which is why, i expect, the priest decided not to answer me. He knows me.

The answer is, however plain to all to see.

I would hope never to fall out over it, though.

:-D

I am so sorry that the priest didn't have the courage of his convictions to answer your questions Eldrick. I am also sorry that your young friend had suffered so much.


My husband has Parkinson's, my daughter has autism, my mother had MS......I certainly don't believe that these were all caused by God's will.....nor was I taught that he caused these things. I just know that these things happen and that He loves us and helps me to cope. Despite her 50 years of suffering, my mother retained a sense of faith and dignity and was an inspiration to many.


I had never heard of the Freethinker and so checked the site. I now see where you get your 'facts' from.

It is full of ridicule and antipathy towards those who have faith.

I don't believe I have yet ridiculed you for being an atheist but I will still hold out a hand of friendship. :-)



Cx.

I only quoted what you said as I read it Eldrick .

i did not read your comments as applying only to "faith schools" ...but to schools in general. :-D

Cyn

Because thats what is taught. I was at a funeral this afternoon and the priest said that god had decided it was time for the young person to join him in heaven and sit at his right hand and we should give thanks for her short life and death.

It just seemed a shame that he made them suffer with cancer for so long first. Which I did mention to him, in private, afterwards.

There was no reply.

RR, I think you are taking this out of context a bit, if you dont mind me saying so. I stand by my claim that there are schools in England - specifically Muslim Faith schools - that teach children pernicious nonsense.

The numbers that succumb cannot be counted, but its irrelevant anyway. The assertion is as I have said. Now if you are content with English children - because thats what they are - being taught a curriculum that includes indoctrination at the subjective whim of a teacher of the koran, including creation and the fact that when science comes face to face with the koran, the koran wins every time....then fair enough.

I am not. I think it is dreadful.

Annx......where did you get the impression that it's God's will that people are ill or have accidents ? :-S

doesn't that rather contradict your argument Eldrick? if "only a small number succumb" is it not less of a problem than you make out?

I shall skip Mr Dawkins if you don't mind I would rather think for myself :-D

And schools they are. I said that this was being taught in English schools. It is.

Same as it is being preached in Engtlish mosques. It will always be a small number who succumb, same as its only a small number of children who become devout christians. If you doubt this, subscribe to the Freethinker, or better still, the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Science and Reason.

You didn't specify muslim faith schools Eldrick, you just said "schools". I don't have any proof that all Muslim faith schools promulgate hatred of the infidel do you? because if that is the case there seem to be quite a lot of Muslims who have managed to avoid indoctrination and live quite peacefully with the rest of our society?

My daughter got kept in for her lunch hour (yr 6 primary) for stating that she was an athiest. I soon got her an apology for it.

I have not influenced my girls one way or another re religion/god...i prefer to let them make their own minds up...neither were christened ..but eldest has a deep dislike and distrust of it.all as it stands at the mo.....youngest less so. x

Neubie and RR. Muslim faith schools? They also teach creation as a fact.

Your son would not have been allowed to write an essay such as that in a muslim school.

Muslim Faith schools are rife in this country. That is what is so insidious.

We had a COE priest who held the classes for us in the late 1970's .. he questioned everything including the miracles , resurection.
He never tried to indocrinrate us , in fact I think he enjoyed debating with a class of (mainly) agnostics..(we hedged our bets in those days) ;-)

Cynthia, I perhaps didn't make my point as clear as I could. What I meant was, that if it is God's will that things happen, like someone is ill or hurt as that young footballer was, why do people interfere with God's will by praying for the outcome they want? Don't they trust God to decide? Also, if what happens is God's will, why accept medical intervention? To me, who doesn't understand these things, it would seem to be going against God's wishes to do that if you believe. :-S

If you think some young people with impressionable minds believe without questioning, what is more impressionable than an immature child's mind.

I read Eldrick's comment differently and did not think he was referring to all schools.

I have to agree with Neubie, even in 'my young day' ;-) RI or RE as it was known, looked at other religions, questioned the dogma... I can remember writing an essay on the wealth of the church and whether Jesus would have approved :-)

I went to a number of schools,I don't recall any zealous religious teaching in any of them, just some rather nice prayers and optimistic tunes :-D

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And that is why it is so insidious. Schools teach children in this country to believe the same things.

No schools do not do this.. my son took GCSE religious studies and the whole point was to question all faiths and beliefs and interpret these in their own way.
My Son wrote a whole essay on the Catholic Church and their doctrine including questioning why the Papal legacy was hereditary in the past when Popes and other clergy of the catholic church were supposed to adopt a celebate lifestyle...
he questioned the Muslim faith .. baptist, methodist , COE and also lesser known faiths including Scientology.
He passed with an A
They were encouraged to make up their own mind about many different faiths and religions