General Chat

Rose. I remember that period very well indeed. Those were days that were quite frightening. I went to pubs then, and sometimes would see para militaries (FWA) in pubs and I really thought the troubles that had started in Ireland might be coming to Wales.

Robyn Ellis mentions in his 1969 book the violence - mainly aimed at the English second homers in those days. He states categorically that it is no way forward and will just alienate local people. But he does point out that peaceful protest (Gandhi style) can be much more effective. So sit-ins, hunger strikes, paint - all of which I saw or was involved in.

I remember one whole village (I think it was Rhyd-ddu) being virtually cleared of local people and the property became holiday homes. And my recollection is that much was done to stem that inflow of people and keep young people close to their home communities.

AnnC I remember driving along the A5 towards Shrewsbury about 1968. My little Ford Popular was plastered with dragon's tongues (Welsh Language Society) and Plaid Cymru stickers. There was a road block. Cottages had been fire bombed in Corwen area and there was a police check on all nearby roads. I would not have minded having my car checked, but then realised my tax had run out!!! I was a very lucky boy - they waved me through :-) :-)

Apropos of nothing much in the Welsh/English saga, some may be interested to to know that the Spitfire that was the gate guardian at RAF Sealand was restored to flying condition some years ago. It's to be seen regularly at air shows around the UK.

PS I am Welsh and proud to be so.

or when John and his mates were burning down those little cottages ;-)

Nice swerve John no answer then? Perhaps if you had read Rose's link you just may have a clue what my long post was referring to, tisn't all about what you think.

Sue. Never said what you said I said. Didn't want to comment on your long post as it is a view but not sure any of the points are very valid. I could take issue with every one of them, but you have an opinion.

My experiences are very different to yours. But hopefully equally valid.

Blwyddyn newydd dda - happy new year

:-D

Youngsters embarrassed to speak Welsh? Do me a favour! Have you been to pubs in Cardiff? Youngest in particular yaks away with all her friends in Welsh ..lol no idea what world you live in.

Rose, you reiterated what I said but in a much more composed way, you know why ;-)

Apart from S4C theatres showcase Welsh artists, schools still produce musical theatre events etc., it's available if you want it.

I notice John ignored my long post but deferred to you Rose ;-)

Lololol maybe because I have lived here longer than he has and have actually experienced life in the deepest Welsh speaking areas, which we chose to move to by the way.

Well said, Ann :-D :-D

I remember learning Welsh hymns sung by choirs like Treorchy and Pendyrus. Absolutely wonderful.

You cannot fail to shed a tear listening to something like Myfanwy. And I can imagine with your close link to Pendyrus their singing is so special.

Met a chap today who sings with Pendyrus - lives in a little village called Penrhiwfer. Ernie is his name. He keeps asking me to join - I do keep telling him that I cannot sing unless I am in the bath :-( :-(

while there are Welsh choirs, Welsh will never be lost - there are dozens of Welsh choirs who tour the globe, with new choirs being formed on a regular basis - to spread Welsh through song is a great way to go

Rose. What an interesting post. You really got stuck in to that one.

I notice where I live now that Welsh CAN be spoken by a lot of the older people and the younger ones. It has largely by-passed the 20-60 age group.

The younger ones have learned it at school, have gone to Urdd camps and taken part in an Eisteddfod or two. The older ones went to Welsh chapels, amd it was often the language of their childhood hearth and they have a deep affection for the language.

But neither group likes speaking in Welsh. The younger ones because it is not "cool". The older ones because they feel a bit embarrassed about speaking Welsh in public. Not as refined as speaking English.

Like many of us, I love really good poetry. Milton was my favourite - I lapped him up. I doubted I would ever see anything better.

But poet after poet in Wales is superior to Milton. The standard (and there are 1500 years of Welsh poetry) is outstanding. Internal rhyming and the beautiful alliterative flow of Welsh poetry takes it to a higher level than the best English poets can offer. That has been the greatest thrill for me in learning Welsh.

Calon lan yn llawn daioni
Tecach yw na'r lili dlos

A pure heart full of goodness
Is fairer than the pretty lily

Welsh is a smashing language & like many others, it will die if it is left unattended.

Happily, this will not happen in my lifetime - thank goodness. Let's not murmur too much at any inconvenience.

The pompous old fool has set back his cause by decades with his arrangance and bullying, this what I will always remember him by and I am sure the poor £7.00 an hour cashier will do the same.

Its not a very sexy acccent to begin with is it really ....sorry Mr Daff ;-)

My sister and her husband lived in Ceredigion (nr Aberaeron) for over 20 years. Both are English and don't speak Welsh - they wanted a bit of land and this part of Wales allowed them to afford what they wanted at the time. They made many friends, both 'incomers' and Welsh locals, they contributed to the economy, had various jobs and supported local businesses. They never encountered any prejudice or ill-feeling because they were incomers.

There are prats, idiots and ill-mannered die-hards of all colours speaking all languages.

John
you remind me of my friend,born in wales but moved to argentina in the early 70s age 10,came back to wales age 21 and married a lad from the R A F and moved to england,they divorced 7yrs ago and she came back to wales(shes in her late 40s now)with her two children,shes very welsh but her children dont speak welsh.
a few months ago we went to cardiff to see John Bishop,she vas very offended when John started to tell jokes about the welsh language,she laughed her head off about the scouse/muslim/irish/scots jokes but found the welsh jokes very offensive and they were mild compared to the scouse jokes.

Robin Lewis is always writing complaints to our local paper a paper where he has a column ,he always writes in english? if hes so worried about the language why use english. :-(

Very concise Sue :-D

Merlin. As far as Welsh is concerned, all I will say is that I support Wales in the rugby and Wolves and Wales in football. Always have since a boy. And my second favourite rugby side is Ireland. And third is France. Whether England win at anything is of no importance to me.

I think most Welsh speakers will be very upset if Dr Lewis does damage to the cause of the Welsh language. I don't expect friends in England or in Anglicised parts of Wales to really understand why we fight so hard for legal equality of the Welsh language, but they are generally sympathethic and tell us to get on with it.

Yes, we did paint out some road signs in 60's and early 70's. There was a furore at the time, but bilingual signs are now accepted and visitors think it is quaint and different. And incomers love to live in roads they can hardly pronounce. Find a property developer in South Wales who gives his roads English names - and they are Welsh for financial reasons. People like Welsh - written and spoken.

Rose Costa Geriatrica? Possibly Arfordir yr Henaint.

OK our Rose I read all of that!

Firstly, I know one of the contributors in Aberystwyth and secondly I actually live in one of the areas mentioned so I reckon I can have a valid opinion on some of the tripe I have just plowed through.

a) local shops being run by English people...yep and why? the locals chose to shop in out of town centres and the previous Welsh shopkeepers saw the writing on the wall.

b) post offices being closed, that is happening all over the UK in rural areas and has naff all to do with incomers.

c) primary schools being overrun with children from English speaking homes, errr...no children no school!

d) churches and chapels closing, surely that is because less people are attending.

e) local children leaving to find work...it's a long standing agricultural area 90% of school/uni leavers migrate to where the businesses are!

f) lack of business opportunities, perhaps if Wales didn't end where the M4 does is might be different. That little problem is down to the business gurus in the Assembly.

g) and my favourite. Housing being snapped up because locals cannot afford the prices. I'll grant you that there are many retirees with money who move to Wales. However, you need to go back a few decades when traditional cottages were regarded as the pits by children of Welsh families who wanted a nice new 3 bed semi with double glazing and central heating. English viewers saw these as opportunities to acquire an asset and the prices were dirt cheap. They either upgraded them or restored them beautifully.

These participants can scream about ethnic cleansing till they are blue in the face. Did they scream "we will NOT sell to an incomer on principle"? Nope, and those that did like one of our vendors soon found a 'get out of jail free' card and took our money.

My own children could not have earned the wages they receive in Cardiff if they had stayed at home nor have afforded to purchase a property. It's not just a problem for indigenous Welsh.

Without incomers lots of self start businesses would not exist, shops would not hear their tills ringing, rural bus services would have been cancelled years ago, schools would be closing every month etc.,


To finish I'd like to add this. When the kids go to Uni they have their eyes opened to a whole new exciting world. They compare the opportunities in Cardiff, Swansea or any of the English FE establishments and wonder what on earth is attractive about returning to their home village or town. So in my case 3 Welsh speakers left their local area never to return. Even if they are replaced by another family I have no doubt those children will be off PDQ to greener pastures so it's like a Celtic knot isn't it?

Sue

Which part are in then, Denis, if it is not rude of me to ask.

Julia in DErbyshire

Did you know that the "elvish" spoken in LOTR is basically Welsh?

RR love Barmouth :-D

Doesn't sound like the Scotland I live in?

As is happening in Scotland Rose, all for the central belt and
the rest are left out.

Emma x