General Chat

please, on this or what YOU think should be done.

"If he becomes prime minister next year, Mr Miliband says he will end entitlement to adult out-of-work benefits for 18-to-21 year olds.

Instead they will get a "youth allowance" if they agree to undertake vocational training of AS level or equivalent. At the moment, they are prevented by benefit rules from training while looking for work.

The new allowance is expected to be paid at the same £57 level currently given to under-25s on Jobseeker's Allowance."

Politicians of all persuasions including Ed Miliband, have stated that the way out of dependency on benefits is through employment, and on the face of it, that makes sense, that said it does not address the real problem.

Politicians appear to delight in telling "Joe Public" how wonderful our lives are as a direct result of the governments "Economic Plan" especially how they have reduced unemployment, albeit they shy away about how much of that reduction is down to zero-hour contracts.

They tell us not to be upset if you are employed on a zero-hours contract, instead they say you should be jumping for joy because, if you are on a zero-hours contract, it means you have a job and do not carry the stigma of being unemployed, likewise this scheme proposed by Ed Miliband will allow politicians to claim just that.

All these smoke & mirror schemes will not deal with the real problem and that problem is that, for thousands of people, especially the young unemployed, their is no real incentive to work, and such schemes as proposed by Ed Miliband are no different than those put in place under Thatcher, when thousands were shunted into further education to reduce the true level of unemployment.

Until the real problem of low wages and the shortage of real jobs is tackled, and that will only happen when we get real growth and increased productivity, instead of growth fueled by rising property prices and increased household debt, will we see, the incentive to work and the aspiration of young people to get on, take hold.

You can put as many young people as you want into further education, unless there are jobs available for them to take up when they finish their course, you are wasting time and money.

Not too long ago, Mrs Merkel quite rightly pointed out that we shouldn't see academic success as the only measure – and the thousands of UK graduates who are either out of work or living in foreign parts are testimony to a one-track system here.

She wants to promote the merits of Germany's dual system of schooling and work experience – a mix of classroom learning and on-the-shop-floor work experience

Germany has halved its youth unemployment since 2005 or so we are expected to believe. Good for them if this is correct. They are now in a position to offer a place on a dual system training programme to every young person who wants one.

And that has resulted in a whole generation of skilled workers and master craftsmen taking their rightful place in German society, at the heart of an economy which hardly seems to have suffered because everyone doesn't go to university.

The UK has huge success in attracting hi-tech multinationals here on the back of our graduate numbers, but we have also become so fixated with this as the only measure of industrial success that we have dumped every other option.

The German idea is a more rounded approach to job creation as well as an acknowledgement that there is more than one measure of ability. In all careers, our youth can learn more in a hands-on environment than they can in the lecture hall or possibly in the students' subsidised bar.

Has Germany a lesson we need to learn & who'd want to be a student again anyway? Not me!

Dermot - I agree with your comments about the UK and yes maybe we can learn something from Germany.

Many of my peers took up trades as electricians, joiners, plumbers, car mechanics, bricklayers, engineers, etc - they would spend say 3 days hand on at their workplace and 2 days on day release at a college of furhter education, many went on to become foremen and managers, none had a university degree.

Our economy is far from stable. it is unbalanced and is under threat from our trade deficit, a housing bubble, and seriously weak productivity - the finance sector caused the last financial disaster and if left unchecked it will cause another :-|

This isn't about university degrees, it is about vocational training of AS level or equivalent.

Time to return to the principle that all are not equal, encouraging all kids to stay on and go to university is daft.

There have always been those who are gifted with a grasp of maths science and Latin, but cannot tie their shoelaces and those who may not be the brain of Britain but can take one look at a practical problem and fix it.

We need to realise that some kids are leaders and others happier to be lead and train them accordingly (no not advocating Brave new world) one of the things that killed off apprenticeships was the privatisation of British Gas, Steel, Mining, the Electricity industry and Telecom.

They had faults but they were committed to training young lads who had not got O levels or even RSA's as long as they had a good attitude they could get a job.
Now we have kids coming out of university with a degree and trying to get an apprenticeship with Tesco!

Of course young people 16-21 should be helped to get further qualifications - are we going to help them with transport to get them? Our nearest college of further education is nearly 30 miles away, and to get a bus there would include a further bus to connect from the outlying country. Many families might have two children in the over sixteen age group, who are now to be denied free transport to their own school's sixth form - enough to make it difficult for parents to encourage any kind of further studies.

My daughter has spent a year at college and has hated it, mainly because she was unable to do the course she wanted to do because of her bad English grade. Last year she wanted to go to Uni, now it looks like she will be leaving with what qualifications she has. She is not work shy and has worked since she was 15 doing as many hours she can get at times......even working before she starts college which is about 15 miles away

There were some interesting figures released a few months ago - I will try to find them - which showed, amongst other things, that the number of older people now working past the age they would have retired until recent legislative changes was almost exactly mirrored by the growth in numbers of unemployed young people.

hmmm

My plumber/electrician/handyman (has all required qualifications) is fantastic. Reliable, trustworthy (all his work is by recommendation).

But he is over 65.

Now he has tried t encourage his grandson to join him but that did not work out.

We urgently need Plumbers, Electricians, Builders and yes, general handymen or wormen to help when needed.

So few youngsters are going into these trades, either as apprentices or just to learn from scratch, as they do not think they are
a: paid enough
or
b: its jolly hard work

What they forget is once they are fully trained all these jobs are very well paid, and in some areas you can literally name your own price.

We are heading into a future with none of these skills around.

Many of the 'foreign' builders who are also very good (wish I could find one sometimes in an emergency) are saving up to go home. They will not all be here in 10 years time.

This is a little hidden time bomb which is going to come back and hit us.

Some one we know is a skilled carpenter/joiner. As he was so much in demand, he thought it a good idea to take on an Apprentice under the (then) government scheme.

When the organiser called to view his premises, he was told that the Apprentice would need their own facilities and rest room.

The Joiner worked out of a large garage like structure in effect at the bottom of his garden. The Loo was off the kitchen in his house. Needless to say, as a small tradesman, he couldn't afford to build separate facilities, and that's assuming he got planning permission on green belt land.

So another younger person isn't going to get the opportunity to train - no common-sense and too much red tape by the powers that be.

what happens to people like laddo with autism who hated school and didnt do well in the exam based qualifications but did well in coursework based subjects which were then not counted as qualifications at college. He has spent 2 years on a foundation courses doing a bit of this and that and has now been accepted on the original course of carpentry he wanted. If it doesnt work out for some reason and he has to sign on under this scheme he wouldnt be able to get to the qualications standard they want he just couldnt cope with all the learning, practical things yes but theory not so good on.