General Chat

I had read reports about what this chap was alleged to have said, but initially put it down to just something else doing the rounds of the rumour mill.

It appears it was not speculation - footage has emerged of the former Conservative MP Tim Fortescue, suggesting on the BBC in 1995 that party whips might not disclose certain behaviour of colleagues including that "involving small boys."

Tim Fortescue, who was a Senior Whip in Sir Edward Heath's government from 1970-1973, claimed that MPs would "come and ask if we could help and if we could, we did".

Watch & listen to what he said here;-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28207066

I for one had no intention of trying to politicise the story, so to clarify, my comment about a conspiracy to protect the Thatcher government being damaged was made "in relation to what happened to the documents that were handed to Leon Brittan the Home Secretary in Margaret Thatcher's government between 1983 and 1985"

I am fully aware that the allegations of abuse relate to politicians from several persuasions.

Some in high positions do not always owe their status to being the best persons for their jobs on the basis of ability.

Rollo - I totally agree. It is cross party and yet there are those who inevitably will try to politicise the story.

"it was a conspiracy to protect the Thatcher government being damaged."

Not a bit of it the list is cross bench. As always with this sort of thing the ruling class ( not the same thing as the government front bench ) and senior media people have know what was going on for yonks. There are plenty of reasons why it has not leaked onto Twitter so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_m6EZ1SUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyEJZ9yODB8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NLV24qTnlg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivY2HK777Zg

;-)

The flood gates will open soon from those who hopefully have the courage and be assisted to name their abusers who were in high places at that time ,,,,dead or otherwise, especailly those who were brought from an alleged childrens home at the mercy of someones desire of seedy perversion.

Sorry, I should have made it clearer - I didn't notice the date.

Got it, Barbados was in reference to supercrutch's post on 5th Jul 2014 @ 09:47 - don't worry, it does not take much to :-S me :-D

Supercrutch was mentioning extradition treaties earlier on the thread - it's a category 2 territory.

Barbados :-S :-S :-S

A state will only be designated as a category 2 territory in this way in relation to certain conduct only, i.e. the conduct to which the relevant international convention applies. The applicable conventions are usually specific to a certain type of offending; for example -

Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft signed at the Hague on 16th December 1970 ("the Hague Convention") - aviation related offences


United Nations United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances which was signed in Vienna on 20th December 1988 ("the Vienna Convention") - trafficking of drugs offences


United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 10th December 1984 ("the Torture Convention") - torture offences


The relevance for requests for import extradition to the United Kingdom is that if a non category 1 or 2 territory is listed in SI 2005 No.46, then an import extradition request can be made, via the Special Crime and Counter Terrorism Divisions Extradition Unit, for conduct that falls within the scope of the relevant applicable convention.

Barbados is an extradition partner of the UK.

The mystery deepens, as it has now been revealed that the late MP Geoffrey Dickens also sent a copy of the dossier alleging sexual abuse of children by MP's and Peers, to the then Director of Public Prosecutions, Sir Thomas Hetherington, so what happened to that - has that also been lost or destroyed?

I think that what Lord Tebbit said on the Andrew Marr Show yesterday explains, to a certain extent, what the mindset was at the time the dossier about an alleged paedophile ring at Westminster emerged - Lord Tebbit said: "At that time I think most people would have thought that the establishment, the system, was to be protected and if a few things had gone wrong here and there that it was more important to protect the system than to delve too far into it."

The establishment at that time was Margaret Thatcher's government, Margaret Thatcher was very much "the public image of the establishment" she was revered by many senior ministers and senior officials. Those ministers and officials who revered her would have done what ever was necessary to bring to a halt anything that might damage her position.

To that end, I think that the events surrounding this missing dossier were not just a cover up - it was a conspiracy to protect the Thatcher government being damaged.

Mayfield - When I read some of the reports on the goings on in Parliament, I am convinced, that it was the Sir Humphrey Appleby's, that wrote the scripts for "Yes Minister" & "Yes Prime Minister"

Lets face it - in your wildest dreams you could not make up some of what goes on in that place :-|

Can't you just hear Sir Humphrey Appleby explaining to Jim Hacker that the file was "unavailable" ;-)

Brittan was certainly questioned BUT we must not forget that the dossier being referred to in the media is not the only one to have disappeared.

There is credible testimony in the public domain regarding a late PM, that has been quashed PDQ.

I really don't care how 'famous' they are, if they become 'infamous' it's right and proper they ARE named and the abuse is recognised. The abused suffer every day and have shared their traumatic experiences in order to try and get justice.

How shameful for the country as a whole if their retelling of their abuse is for nothing.

+++DetEcTive+++ no problem, I thought it was the case that you had misread my post :-)

The Jimmy Saville scandal was probably the springboard for all these sexual abuse claims that are now coming to light.

We have had the allegations about Saville; the allegations about the MP Cyril Smith; the allegations about Stuart Hall, the allegations about Rolf Harris, to name but a few, now we have these allegations about sexual abuse of young people by Members of Parliament and Members of the House of Lords.

I don't think that the allegations about abuse by MP' & Peers are a "no smoke without fire" scenario, I think they are more like the embers of a raging fire - a fire those in the highest echelons of government, hoped had been put out, only to discover it was only dampened down, and that the embers are about to reignite and burst into flames.

Interesting to note that, that a man in his 70s was interviewed under police caution, by appointment, at a central London location last month, the man was not arrested and inquiries continue. However the BBC has reported that it understands, that man interviewed, was Leon Brittan the former Home Secretary, and that he was interviewed about an allegation of rape of a 19-year-old student at his London flat in 1967 before he became an MP.

Some people say the most common phrase heard in Parliament is "Order, Order, Order" some now say it is "Lawyer, Lawyer, Lawyer" ;-)

Ofitg - sorry. My reading of your post was that the names in the dossiers would be publicised, not the names of those who might have encouraged or been involved in their destruction/cover up.

It appears there is the possibility that a cover up, by those in the highest echelons of Government, the Crown Prosecution Service, and the Metropolitan Police, may have taken place, and the admission that some 114 potentially relevant files have, either been lost or destroyed, only fuels that possibility.

I agree that, a trial or trials in a criminal court, would provide a better chance, for those who were abused, to obtain justice against anyone found guilty of abusing them.

However my previous post was not about the victims who were abused, it was about who knew what, when they knew about it, and what actions if any they took. to that end I think, that a judge led public enquiry, would be the best platform to find that out.

they won't be "exposing themselves to ridcule" - they will be heroes and regarded as such