General Chat

The appointment of Lady Butler- Sloss into this new paedophilia enquiry is being questioned because she is the sister of Lord Havers.

I think there will be a mighty big one hitting the fan this time!

Sharron, I found it Interesting to read about who has been chosen to head the independent inquiry into the allegations of historical abuse, the retired High Court Judge Elizabeth Butler-Sloss, now the Baroness Butler-Sloss, she currently sits on the cross benches of the House of Lords, interesting that she also stood as the Conservative candidate for Vauxhall in the 1959 general election.

Baroness Butler-Sloss is the sister of the late Michael Havers (Baron Havers), who was the Attorney General Attorney from (1979 to 1987) which covered the period, the former Home Secretary Leon Brittan, was handed the dossier, that has now disappeared, that allegedly contained details of child abuse, and In June 1987 Michael Havers was appointed to the office of Lord Chancellor.

While he was Attorney General, Michael Havers, faced criticism, for his attempts to stop, the late MP Geoffrey Dickens, naming in Parliament - the diplomat Sir Peter Hayman as a paedophile. However Lady Butler-Sloss has said she was unaware of her brother's role, when he was Attorney General, during the paedophile controversy in the 1980s - she said: "I know absolutely nothing about it,"

So we have a member of the so called establishment, a parliamentarian, who once stood as a Tory candidate in a general election, whose brother was the most senior government law officer at the time of the allegations, heading up an investigation into the establishment. An investigation that has no powers to compel witnesses to attend or take an oath :-S albeit the Home Secretary Theresa May has said it could be converted into a full public inquiry if necessary - personally I think it should have been a full public inquiry from the outset :-S

sounds very iffy to me :-S

I agree OneFootInTheGrave although it has to be said that there were arguments for keeping things, shall we say, quiet. Some would say that it was in the country's interests not to stir the hornets' nest too much.

I wouldn't for a moment question Lady Butler-Sloss's integrity - but it would be very hard for her if she were to discover her brother had been even slightly involved in a possible cover-up

Wow, just found this - an 'Academic' view of paedophilia:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html

As one who's always been cynical of academics - especially those who, through 'research', and the Government, tell us how to live, I now feel my cynicism is justified!

I read this the other day and can see where some of them are coming from but it is important to remember that this is not the view of academia but the view or hypothesis of a small number of academics who are not advocating paedophilia per se.

I hope anyone who reads the article takes it in its entirety and doesn't merely cherry pick.

This is quite interesting

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/westminsters-dark-secret-adultery-homosexuality-sadomasochism-and-abuse-of-children-were-all-seemingly-lumped-together-9593131.html

I am not questioning Baroness Butler-Sloss's integrity nor her experience for this role, however she may find her position untenable, because it would be unprecedented, if her brother was not consulted about the so called dossier, not least because of the seriousness of the allegations, but also because, at the time the allegations emerged, he was the Attorney General - the most senior government law officer, whose primary role was to advise the government of any possible legal repercussions that could result from their acts or omissions.

Errol, obviously O'Carroll cherry- picked, so it's open day for any others of his ilk to read what they wanted about the conference.
Plummer wasn't too forthcoming about previous declarations and activities either.

maggiewinchester that's very true

You know how it is when a kitten gets hold of an old woolly jumper ... once it starts to unravel it just goes on and on and on until the jumper disappears and the kitten has become a cat.

Butler-Sloss has the tricky job of putting out a brush fire in the undergrowth of the ruling class while making sure that the establishment does not start to unravel as the curious kitten makes its way across the clubs of St James, dubious places in Brixton, children's homes ( again ) not to forget the palaces of the church of England ( which has been more skilful than the Vatican ), certain schools both public and private and some of the wrong side of the street for the armed forces.

In what will prove to be more a result of opportunity rather than inclination the Tories are likely to suffer more than Labour should the smouldering burst into a full forest fire during 2015. Hence Labour's relish for a judicial public inquiry while Cameron has chosen a "safe pair of hands".

It may strike some as odd that while Mr Harris and others have ended up in jail as a result of old but corroborated evidence there is as yet no intention of doing the same with the complaints in this matter.

Some of you may remember the fall of the McMillan government 50 years ago. For sure it is on Cameron's mind right now. "Watch Out Spring's About" - Daily Express headline.

http://goo.gl/XJik2C

I quite respect Lady S-B and I don't doubt her integrity but I don't think she's the right choice. There's already so much disagreement about her appointment and her links are unfortunate. She would have to ignore family and professional links, as well as religious ones. I'm not suggesting she couldn't do it but she's not going to have the confidence of many interested parties.

Baroness Butler-Sloss is facing fresh calls for her to step down, because yesterday it emerged that she withheld allegations against an Anglican Bishop from a report she wrote into paedophile priests in 2011.

The retired judge leading the Westminster child abuse inquiry kept allegations about a bishop out of a review of how the Church of England dealt with two paedophile priests because she cared about the Church.

The Times can disclose. Baroness Butler-Sloss told a victim of alleged abuse that she did not want the claims to be in the public domain because “the press would love a bishop”. The revelations led to fresh calls yesterday for the peer to step down as chairwoman of the new inquiry.

Her comments were made in 2011 during a meeting at the House of Lords with Phil Johnson, who suffered abuse by two abusive priests Roy Cotton and Collin Pritchard when he was a choirboy in the Church of England Diocese of Chichester.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4145685.ece

She is 80 now - so 77ish in 2011. She said the bishop was "very old now".

So how old is very old?

Rollo states "It may strike some". I suggest that it probably strikes many...

This inquiry needs to be chaired by someone who is not closely associated with the "Westminster Establishment" if it is not, it will be seen to be a whitewash, Baroness Butler-Sloss should do the honourable thing and step down as head of this inquiry, she is too close to the "Westminster Establishment" and as this article about the Anglican Bishop shows, her priorities are questionable.

Perhaps, and I don't say this because I am a Scot, a senior judge from Scotland's High Court of Justiciary would be a better choice - to ensure the inquiry is seen to be independent and unbiased.

There are several objections and legitimate questions quoted on this thread that deserve comprehensive answers.

The trick is not to turn the triumph of having this enquiry into a disaster before it even starts.

I am shocked and cannot believe what I have just read in today's edition of, Scotland on Sunday (The Scotsman Sunday Newspaper), that Sir Nicholas Fairbairn, is alleged to have been associated with the Westminster abuse scandal.

The reason I am shocked is, I knew Nicholas Fairbairn, I visited him several times at his home, I met him on several occasions in Inverkeithing and Edinburgh for a drink, and I find it very hard to believe, that the man I knew could have played any part in this scandal, sadly he has departed this earth - so he cannot defend himself.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/sir-nicholas-fairbairn-in-child-abuse-scandal-link-1-3474912

In a couple of other Sunday papers, it is being widely reported, that Margaret Thatcher had knowledge of the scandal, they are reporting that a former party activist, Anthony Gilberthorpe, said he sent Thatcher a 40-page dossier in 1989 accusing Cabinet members of abusing under age boys.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-child-abuse-whistleblower-margaret-3849172

With these recent allegations, involving individuals at the highest level of government, I think the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary, must now take this whole issue out of the hands of the "Westminster Establishment" and set up a full public inquiry - chaired by someone, who is currently sitting as a judge in the High Court.