General Chat

why didn't they check the cctv?

Joy :-0

"Good thinking Batman"... :-D :-D :-D

mind judging by the ladies profession
that shawl could bear the DNA of hundreds of men :-( :-(

cause lets face it
she had been round the block more times than the postman ;-) ;-)

I think the Turin shroud has been 'done to death' so to speak Budgie. I googled it and was surprised to see that it has its own website and details of all latest tests/theories etc. I remain open minded on that one too. :-D

I wonder what's next, DNA taken from the Turin Shroud ?

well your right there is that xx :-D

Or just another news-grabber in order to sell a book ;-)

interesting pipe dream though Sheila :-D :-D

I may be cynical but -

- there is no proof that this shawl was connected with the victim. No provenance when it was bought at auction.
- I've read loads of stuff re Ripper and I don't remember mention of a shawl found at the crime scene.
- Kosminski's DNA at the scene does not prove that he is the killer.
- the techniques to obtain the DNA have not been published or had peer review.
- DNA evidence is not the 'magic bullet', just another tool in the forensic toolbox. Other proof is needed.

Unconvinced.

if all comes to all I think the identity of JR
will be somebody not even in the frame
jack nobody previously of interest

but how exciting if the police come knocking on somebody's door
and checked out somebody's family tree :-D :-D
they could do a who do you think you are program on the back of it

when I was at Jeans funeral I was told
two of his victims where buried at the same cemetery

I think there will be a little bit gone from the British psyche if we ever have definitive proof of who really was the Ripper.

It is our own delicious little morsel of tantalizing mystery.

Whatever will we have to speculate upon?

I have long been fascinated by this story and was interested to see the above article linked on FB yesterday. There have been so many theories involving Freemasonry, Royalty, the art world etc., but this is very impressive stuff indeed.

The marvels of modern science eh? :-D

the article is very interesting ................... I nearly posted it last night.


The shawl, soaked in blood, was found by the side of the body of Catherine Eddowes.

It was picked up by a policeman who was given permission by his superiors to take it home to his wife, a dressmaker. She did nothing with it ................. but it stayed in the family, being passed down from generation to generation.

Eventually it was put up for auction, and the guy who wrote the article bought it.


He found some first rate scientists, one at the John Moores University, Liverpool who had developed new techniques for extracting DNA from old stains.

That scientist discovered that there were blood stains, and also semen stains.

He managed to extract some mitochondrial DNA from both the blood and the semen.

Mitochindrial DNA is passed down the female line

They managed to find a female descendant of Catherine Eddowes, and one descended from the sister is Isaac Kosminski


The scientists showed that there was almost 100% matching between the DNA from the blood with that of Catherine's descendant, and between the DNA in the semen with that of the Kosminski descendant.

So it seems somewhat more conclusive than any other proposed solution.


In additon, an interesting little bit was the design of the shawl.


It was far mroe expensive than anything that Catherine could have afforded ........ after all she had pawned her shoes the previous day.

The pattern in the central section of the shawl was of Michaelmas daisies, which were often used as a symbol for Michaelmas .................. a church even time that is often ignored now

But back then, it was an important part of the calendar ................ quarter day when rents were paid, and jobs begun or ended.


The author discovered that there were actually 2 dates for Michaelmas .............

the western Christian churches celebrated it on September 29, while the Eastern Orthodox churches celebrated it on November 8


Catherine Eddowes and Elizabeth Stride were both murdered on September 29

November 8 was the date of the last, and most vicious murder, that of Mary Jane Kelly


Kosminski was committed to an asylum in 1890 ................ and there were no more murders after that.

He was apparently one of the 3 most credible suspects at the time, but the police didn't have the evidence.


I was really impressed with the scientific detection involved in this one!

well it is still a bit up in the air ... but yes wouldn't it be nice to know the truth?

it is a mystery that has fascinated so many for so long ... and given birth to so many books and movies and tourist traps :-)

and of course it is the story of so many women who were so brutally killed and whose bones have been picked over so much ... who could maybe be properly laid to rest then

Hmmmmm,


Interesting

:-)

I'm going to follow the chat on Casebook as best I can ... they seem to have a mix of cheerleaders and naysayers for this new 'discovery'

I'm afraid that I'm below amateur status myself, couldn't even name the suspects other than the prince

http://www.casebook.org/suspects/

but I can claim a connection with Dr Druitt, who once lived in a house that my ancestor's sibling's spouse's sibling's spouse's sibling lived in !

... so of course I'm disappointed if it wasn't him. :-(

I am a bit dubious. How much DNA was on the shawl, where had it been all these years, how strong was the DNA evidence? etc, etc.

I've read the Cornwell book, where it was apparently, definitely Sickert - I was neither impressed by the theory nor convinced.

Will buy this book, same as I did with the Cornwell book, from a charity shop ASAP :-D

(Am I the first to post??)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/Jack-Ripper-unmasked-How-amateur-sleuth-used-DNA-breakthrough-identify-Britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html#ixzz3CfUSoVfx

I have only started to read the article and other things on line but it's so interesting I thought I'd post it now!

I sometimes read a site called http://www.casebook.org/index.html

but it's too deep into the details for me, of course, although very well organized for reading different aspects of the story.

They have a 25-page thread about this discovery now. And they don't seem to be persuaded. :-)

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?s=5e215a16c77c36c2c36f12ae0f5825de&t=8296

also a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh8sazLSMAY

Hmmmmmm.