General Chat

Cynthia, I am sure you were invited back and back because of how well you spoke, not because of how you dressed, an engaging speaker has all eyes on their face I think :-)

I don't think anyone suggests that their shouldn't be a dress code, just that it be sensible and affordable, especially when it is for children who grow so fast. I am so glad Dan did not have to have specific shoes, just getting something in his size has always proved hard enough lol.

Cynthia, I absolutely agree with you and the points you made. The males of the bank office when serving the public always had to wear their jackets and we had to wear tights even in the summer!

If you look good, you feel good and therefore will give 100%.

It's true about keeping standards. Once they go you're on a downward spiral and that applies to many things in todays society.

I wish there was a uniform for teachers as it would stop me wearing all my best clothes to work. As a member of staff, i represent my local education authority and need to look representable at all times. we are embassadors for the school.

If i dressed down and met with some parents, I'm sure they would comment on my dress code.

If teachers are dull and boring it's true their dress code matters not but i think children will have far more respect if they are dressed appropriately. Dressed in jeans and a tshirt alongside pupils dressed the same would give the impression that the teacher is more of"a friend" as it would be hard to distinguish between the two.

It's interesting reading all your different opinions on the subject but for me wearing a uniform should be compulsory for every school in the uk.

Florence
in the hebrides

Fortunately, headteachers cannot dictate what their staff wear.

My best teachers wouldn't have been employed if that were the case because I'm sure our awful headmistress would have loved to do just that. Both were crusty old bachelors with no sense of style whatsoever. But they gave us a love of English and an appreciation of art that I well remember and still have today.

Fine for you, Cynthia, if that's how you choose to dress but not so fine for some other people, perhaps. Adults get to choose what they wear and usually wear what they feel comfortable wearing and what is practical.

Dressing children (or teachers) up like identikit shop dummies won't make their GCSE grade any higher or encourage creativity.

If any teacher, well turned out or not, is boring and lacks teaching skills, then they shouldn't be employed in the first place.


We are all aware of that fact that one shouldn't judge a book by it's cover but, for a school to insist on a high standard of dress code for it's pupils, but not expect the staff to make a similar effort, is saying "Do as I say, not what I do".


When my husband worked in a bank in Liverpool, the cashiers were not allowed to be seen without their jackets on - even in the hottest weather. It was a case of professionalism and standards being upheld. Of course, that has gone by the by now.


I have done much public speaking in my time and yes, I always made an effort to look decent, not only out of respect for the organisation I was representing, but also out of respect for those who had made the effort to come and listen to me. Oh yes, and I was often invited back....and back....so I can't have been that bad. :-D

Both OH and I wore uniforms. Different schools, we did not know each other then.

Both kids wore uniform too. One in an all girls school, one in an all boys school, although opposite each other, Six form combined.

I must say we could not buy from supermarkets, or M & S. both uniforms had to be bought from specific School Outfitters. But I thought it was great. No arguments in the mornings.

Plus, they both had decent clothes to wear when they went out with their mates in the evenings.

I support uniforms in school completely.

In this area all the secondary schools have a uniform, so parents have no choice at all. They can't choose to send their children to non-uniform schools any more.

Good old Huff post, always to the point. Thanks for posting that Rose.

Of course back in my day, girls were not allowed to wear trousers, or the 'boyish' shoes they wear now...

Rules, as set in stone as they once seemed to be, can always be changed by the will of the majority ;-)

Just a few random points re the costs etc which were found googling the not very grammatical but to the point "school uniform if you are poor"

"In order to research this issue we contacted over 40 primary and secondary schools, interviewed 3 major uniform suppliers, met with head teachers as well as talking to a wide spectrum of parents and pupils. We used that feedback to see what the differences are between school uniform in
different schools. Three major issues came out of this research:

• 50% of all schools that responded are recommending just one specific supplier who tends to be
more expensive than other more affordable options. This goes against government guidance.
•
• Pupils whose parents cannot afford new/correct uniform are often
bullied which affects their opportunity to do well at school."

and from another site re help with purchase

"The average cost of a school uniform and PE kit is £224.69 - the average local authority grant for school uniform is just £51.27, if there is a grant at all.

and this article, which will probably be disagreed with by many, but which I post mainly for Guinevere lol :-D http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/louise-pennington/school-uniforms-patriarchy_b_3854527.html

but I'll quote this from it as I know it to be true

"Kids can also tell the difference between clothes from Tesco's and clothes from John Lewis even in schools, which have generic cheap uniforms. They can tell the difference between boots bought from Clarks and knock-offs from ShoeZone. If they are bullied for clothing, they are just as likely to be bullied for wearing uniform as they are for wearing Tesco's brand jeans."

I couldn't agree more - if you don't like the rules then go to another school.

I went to a direct grant catholic school in Liverpool in the 60's. If you wore something inappropriate having previously been warned you were sent for the strap.

My wife went to a C of E school which also had strict uniform rules. Incorrect dress such as skirts to short and you were immediately sent home to change.

Both schools were, and still are, amongst the top performers.

Two nearby local schools were a disaster a few years back. both had new heads appointed and the first thing they did was to instil some disciple which included dress code. Standards rocketed within two years.

When you send your child to any school which has a uniform you are agreeing to comply with their rules on uniform.

And that goes for ALL parts of the uniform.

This stops bullying those who cannot afford designer clothes etc.,

We had uniform when I was as school and if you were caught outside without your beret etc., by either a teacher, nun or priest you were sent either to the head or back home for the missing article.

Rules is Rules :-)

Children aren't stupid, they know clothes do not maketh the man or woman.

If a teacher is a good communicator with enthusiasm for his/her subject the children will respect that person and learn, even if he/she dresses like a tramp. Like Rose, my best teachers were scruffs.

If a beautifully dressed and well-presented teacher is boring and has no teaching skills the immaculate clothes won't make a halfpence of difference. Children instinctively know not to judge by what's on the surface, a shame adults lose that skill.

Like Ladyscozz I would have stuck out like a sore thumb at senior school if it hadn't been for a uniform as my parents couldn't have afforded or wouldn't have paid for decent clothes. Yes, the rich girls had their uniforms from posher shops and could afford to go on ALL the school trips, but because we all looked much the same by and large it helped my confidence at school and that led to good exam results. We grumbled about the bottle green pants we had to wear and sailor style hats, but loved the gymslips and pretended to be St Trinians girls!!

I think it is good that many primary schools have uniforms too now which makes a child identifiable out of school or on trips. I'm sure if a child went missing in school uniform the public would be more likely to remember if they had seen a child in uniform than a child in not in uniform.

The important thing is that the uniform items are cheap enough for everyone to buy and comfortable to wear with sew on logos.

We are lucky in my school as all the teachers are always smartly dressed. never wear jeans unless its a non uniform day at say end of term.

I know one shouldnt judge by the clothes we wear, but i was always brought up to dress smart and that didnt mean in expensive clothes, just clear hair and tidy appearance. that way prospective employers will think well of you.

in a way it was true as first impressions count. imagine going to an interview dressed in your sloppiest clothes, hair unkept etc what does that say about the individual?

i know some of you will say smart doesnt make you intelligent but it says you've made an effort.

Those that dont bother to wear uniform will grow up and go on into the workplace with the same attitude that dress code doesnt matter. If and when they take a job in a bank or other place where they will have to wear a uniform, what then? No conform,no job.

It's this rebellious attitude i can't stand."you can't force me to wear this or do this etc.. because and i quote " I have rights and you cant tell me what to do"

Since when did a school child have the right to go against the school rules, tell teachers what to do and worse have their parents agree with the child?

A child recently told me i didnt have the right to make them sit by themselves at a table and that it was their right to sit wherever they wanted in the classroom. I told them " and it's my right to expect you to behave in an appropriate manner towards others when in school at all times."When I think you can behave you can rejoin the other pupils at their desk! Their reply was" have to ask my dad about that right, as I havent been told about that one."

This is what we are up against all the time.

Florence
in the hebrides :-|

I agree with many of Guinevere's comments on school uniforms, I went to a senior secondary school, my school uniform was a black blazer with school badge, grey trousers, black lacing shoes, black socks, white shirt and school tie - my pal next door to me went to the local high school and the difference between his uniform and my uniform was the colour of his blazer, the school badge and the tie, his uniform cost a lot more than mine :-S

The two best teachers I had were the scruffiest at the time ( cords, worn jackets) :-) Maybe they were more relaxed in themselves? Comfortable, like their clothes, and so set the pupils an example in being individual, different to others perhaps but no less intelligent, kind or valued for who they were and what they gave?

They were also the most respected by all their pupils and discipline in their classes was better than any other.... manners maketh man, not suits? ;-)

Just musing :-)

RIP both of them, they taught me a lot more than English :-D

As far as shoes go, I think they should be comfortable and safe, that is enough.

If a school is going to set a standard of smartness for it's young pupils, then I think it is correct that the teachers follow that standard too. They are there to set an example as well as to teach. If the children have to make the effort, then so should the staff.

I have seen both sides of the scenario - from the well dressed teacher to the one who turns up looking like an unmade bed or ready for a night out on the town.

Their dress code may not affect their ability to teach, but it could certainly make an impression on young minds - for better or for worse.

I did have a uniform for school which changed a few times while I was there. The first was a mint green blouse with a mid green tunic and bottle green tights. We also had to wear a mid green blazer, blue tie with green and white pin stripes and brown shoes with no heels. In summer we wore pale brown ankle socks instead of tights. Primary seven ( around 11 years old) in the summer we could wear a mid green skirt and an open neck white blouse with green pin stripes instead of the tunic and tie.

It was horrible and brown shoes for school were very hard to find. The only places we could get them were expensive school wear shops.

I agree with Guinevere, totally :-D

(I'm going for brevity these days, keeps me out of trouble ;-) )

Teachers aren't children, that's the difference. The quality of my teaching is not influenced one jot by what I'm wearing. Most teachers don't actually like uniforms but are compelled to adhere to the school rules. It's a bit silly to say teachers should be dressed the same way as children.

When children complained that I wore nail varnish in school when they couldn't I told them they could do the same just as soon as they had my qualifications. They are children, I am all grown up.

And we are entitled to lunch breaks, like every other worker. Sit with the kids? No way, it would put me off my food. That's why we have lunchtime supervisors and an excellent job they do.

A lot of us like to do marking or hear children read or catch up with planning after eating lunch in the staffroom. Plus there are often staff meetings.

Edit - In England most LEAs do NOT help with school uniform costs.

Hi all,
Having worked as a cleaner in a lot of schools the teachers could do with some sort of dress code. Not all male teachers go round with shirt/tie and smart blazer. Female teachers can wear clothes that is more suitable for going out in the evening. low cut tops and high heels. Nothing wrong with either but they would send any pupil home if they were dressed like it.
I also think that the teachers should sit and have lunch with the pupils instead of being in the staff room.
Anne

In theory a school uniform should be a financial leveller, although the students will still find ways to display their family's wealth!

Our local secondary changed its entire uniform a few years ago - in the main the students look much tidier than under the old regime.

Navy blue blazers with sew-on badges
Black skirts and black tailored trousers (no tight fit or jeans)
White shirts either V neck or collared with a tie
Navy V neck jumper
Smart low heeled black shoes, no boots.
(they do get pulled up if trainers are spotted)

The PE kit is more draconian as their Polo shirts have to be in their 'college' colours.

Their newsletter states
"Academy will enforce a zero-tolerance stance towards any student who does not follow the uniform policy and appropriate sanctions will be applied to students who do not adhere to this".

The one item not covered by their policy is religious headwear - they really ought to stipulate a plain colour in say navy blue or black!

Post 16 have to kit themselves out in Smart Office wear - suits and ties for the young gents. Some of the girls have a strange interpretation of that!!

The local primary schools tend to have a certain accent colour which can be found in the supermarkets.