General Chat

Drastic changes are needed to services and extra money is needed in the NHS in England - according to the bosses of six six health bodies including NHS England.

They are saying that the NHS needs drastic reforms to services and that extra money will be needed, if the NHS in England is not to suffer - so what has all the money this government tells us the have poured into reforming the NHS been spent on? :-S

Since the former Secretary of State for Health Andrew Lansley, introduced "The Health and Social Care Act 2012" which saw one of, if not the most, extensive reorganisation of the NHS since it's creation in 1948 - this government, has poured hundreds of millions of pounds. into pushing through their reforms :-S.

It appears to me that, we have, one the one hand, the Prime Minister David Cameron and the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, almost daily, getting on their soap boxes to proclaim how they have improved the NHS and blaming everybody else for anything that goes wrong, everybody and everything else that is - except government policies.

On the other hand, we have the bosses of our health bodies - telling us a different story, is it any wonder people are concerned and confused about what is happening to the NHS?

I would add that Labour and the Liberal Democrats are not innocent bystanders in respect of what is happening to the NHS - the NHS is not a football to be kicked around in a game of "political opportunism" between political parties :-|

Experienced ministers & their flunkies are good at answering questions without actually answering them - if that makes sense & can even proceed further to answer another question not yet raised.

Anyway, we all know that every grievance is usually the fault of previous administrations. The mystery rolls on.

so what has all the money this government tells us the have poured into reforming the NHS been spent on?

Lots of well paid experts to decide what to do.
Lots of well paid experts to decide how to do it.
Lots of well paid experts to work out how much it will cost.
Lots of well paid experts to look at the tenders.
Lots of well paid experts to oversee the works.
Lots of well paid experts to figure why it is running over schedule and budget.
Lots of well paid experts to look at the new scheme.
Lots of well paid experts to decide what went wrong.
Lots of well paid experts to spin it so it looks like the NHS is safe n their hands.
Lots of well paid experts to run a public enquiry.


Lots of well paid experts to decide what to do...........................................
:-P

Too many well paid experts involved in the implementation of policies created by governments of all persuasions - maybe all these experts and their political masters belong to a secret society called "Jobs for the Boys" ;-)

Obese people drunk people addicted people road rage driving people very old people ... expensive new treatments such as state of the art scanners, drugs, joint replacements, spinal disk replacements .... higher national insurance, vat up by 2.5% ... all cost a lot of money and is why NHS costs go up faster than inflation.

For those posting such well worn and plain wrong stuff such as it is all the fault of overpaid consultants and managers try and get to look at the costs break down of a typical USA health provider. Then you will be happy to have the NHS and not pay a quarter of family income for health insurance - which will run out if you become old or unemployed.

OFITG lives in a little island of sheltered housing all muttering away to each other. He should het out more even if it is only @surfing his laptop.

:-|

OFITG lives in a little island of sheltered housing all muttering away to each other. He should het out more even if it is only @surfing his laptop

RolloTheRed that's the sort of insult I have come to to expect from you - water of a ducks back to this old guy who would rather be out and about as opposed to sitting at his desktop computer - unfortunately I am more or less housebound :-P

Yeah well, I am not.

OFITG you chose to insult the NHS on the basis that it is badly managed without any evidence at all. Don't complain when the ball comes back.

From 1948 until 1979 the NHS was hardly managed at all with long serving medical consultants and a few powerful matrons calling the shots. The result was a monumental waste of money, a health service seriously behind the curve and a demoralised work force. By 1979 lots of Brits were familiar with health standards in, say, France and other furrin parts and were getting pretty restive with the NHS.

Thatcher wanted to break it up and go for an American style insurance based service. She was not able to sell this to her party and ended up with the "internal market".

Over the next 20 years this set off a real cat fight between the old guard and those trying to instigate a modicum of modern management into the NHS.

The modernisers have not been helped by the Treasury which is a part of a hidebound and utterly un-modernised bureaucracy which is determined on no change. As the Treasury could see that a modernised successful NHS could spell serious changes for itself the attitude of the various PPS has been at best unhelpful.

So now we are where we are with a marginal win for the modernisers.

There is only so much that can be done through efficiency gains while in the end strategies such as paying nurses badly are doomed to failure.

In the end if the NHS is to avoid a spiraling tax take which could well dampen the rest of the UK economy there are no other options but either to change people's behaviour or deny most people advanced modern medicine. This is already happening in Wales.

Quite how obesity, alcohol, smoking and drug abuse can be controlled in a more or less democratic society is an interesting problem.

Much has been spent on preventive medicine, as one who comes from a family with a history of heart problems I can testify to this and also say that the recent coronary care of 2 family members (both at GP surgeries and (different) hospitals) was exemplary. Much better than 20-odd years ago.

Yes, having had an 8 hour spell in A & E recently you can see the results of a 24 hour drinking culture and drug taking and inevitable cost.

Also our local hospitals are much cleaner now and have had handwashing facilities and hand sanitisers installed at entrances.

I still can't believe the number of smoking patients I saw at the entrance to a heart hospital. Seems to defeat the treatment they are getting.

My OP was not directed, as you put it to "insult the NHS on the basis that it is badly managed" - that said, I do think that some of the reorganisation that has taken place were ill thought out and that proper consideration was not given to how they would actually work.

It was intended, to highlight, that for for too long, the three main political parties, the Conservatives, Labour, and the Liberal Democrats have treated the NHS as if they were playing some sort of game, but instead of scoring points for the NHS they use it to score political points for their parties.

I personally believe, that if we are to have a national health service, that continues to provide treatment free at the point of need, politicians must stop using it to score political points, they need to put the politics to one side and work in unison to find a consensus on the way forward for the NHS.

Having had 5 major operations carried out by the NHS I would never intentionally insult it. I have nothing but praise for the medical and nursing staff that cared for me, and those that still do - the vast majority of the surgeons, doctors, nurses, and other medical staff in the NHS - do a marvellous job <3

Rollo is actually talking a lot of sense.

Change isn't something you do once and then forget about it is a continual process, and doesn't come easy or cheap either.

The NHS isn't perfect by any means but it is far better than it ever was, but to keep banging on about politicians 'scoring points' or not knowing the difference between their elbow and their rear end serves no purpose whatsoever.